Penalty charge notice.. help!!

[jcdenton08]

Sure this has come up before, so apologies.

Received a Penalty Charge Notice this morning which I consider extremely harsh, and is the first I've had. It includes four little screencaps of the incident and says "The Council believes that a Penalty Charge is payable with respect to the vehicke with the registration number shown above following an alleged traffic contravention: Using a route restricted to certain vehicles (local buses only) - in Camden (Russell Square) on 25/01.

Basically, we were following the Sat Nav which led us into a TINY (no more than 40ft long) strip of bus lane, as soon as I realised I was going into the bus lane I slammed on, but there was a car right behind me (as shown in the pictures) so I couldn't reverse - as a result the safest thing to do was pass through and back out onto the main road.

The charge is for £120.00 if paid within 28 days, or £60.00 if paid within 14 days.

In NSC's experience, is it worth just paying £60.00 and feeling hard done by, or should I dispute and risk paying £120.00?

Also, it says at the bottom of the letter "You can view camera evidence of the alleged contravention at Camden Council: CCTV evidence of traffic contraventions by entering the vehicle registration number and the Penalty Charge Notice number" - which I did, but it says it cannot be found...



Advice please!

 

[Mackenzie]

Ring them up and explain the situation, but to be honest you'll more than likely have to pay the fine....the BASTARDS!

 

[Gwylan]

I don't see how you can dispute it TBH. You admit that you were in the bus lane and they have the pix to prove it. Grit your teeth, pay it and be wary about following sat navs in the future.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

pay up , i got done in davigdor road last november, i appealed and got a NtO a month later saying the penalty had risen to £70 and that i had 28 days to pay that or appeal which i did and never heard a dickie so after trying to contact the council via phone and appeal a second time i gave up

 

[Lady Whistledown]

From what you say, technically, you've committed the offence, whether inadvertently or not, so they're on solid ground, therefore I'd be amazed if they let you off.

It's pretty crappy in the circumstances you've described, but I'd also imagine that most of the appeals they get are from people pleading similar circumstances, so they can't judge who's telling the truth or not. It's an easy thing to do though, how many times I used to see confused people driving up the bus lanes in Brighton, frequently due to sat navs.

In short, unfortunately, it seems to me you'll have to cough up.

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

Pay the £60 as you cannot plead that a SatNav sent you into a bus lane if you should have noticed the street signs. Lorry drivers have ended up stranded in narrow country lanes because of SatNav , they should be used as an electronic map not as an aid to your driving skills.

 

[Tooting Gull]

It is very harsh, and particularly in the current climate this level of fines can really hurt individuals and families on a tight budget. I think the fines should be £20 tops, still a deterrent but not actually putting people in financial hock. I don't care what anyone says, it's not a serious crime. You get as much for far more anti-social and violent forms of behaviour.

But purely from what you've said there, in my experience there is no way they will let you off.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

ALWAYS dispute it. It freezes the clock so you won't pay the higher amount. Ask for a personal hearing so you can argue your case in front of an independant adjudicator. When I got a parking ticket I did this and the adjudicator ripped the TWO council representatives apart ( why it takes two of them to defend the council is beyond me !!! ). Anyway I won. Even if you loose you still only pay the lower fine just as long as you appealed before the 14 day limit.

 

[jcdenton08]

Just the post I hoped for Westdene - thank you. The letter implies somewhat that if you appeal and lose, you pay the higher fine. I wonder if that's intentional

 

[jcdenton08]

Shit, something did just occur to me - presumably I'd have to go to Camden Council to dispute it... I live near Leeds... Shit.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Just the post I hoped for Westdene - thank you. The letter implies somewhat that if you appeal and lose, you pay the higher fine. I wonder if that's intentional

Be prepared for some very nasty letters - just respond to them politely. You will get a letter stating that the higher fee is now payable. Just before the hearing date you're very likely to get a letter offering you opportunity to pay the lower fine again !!! Wierdly the adjudicator service is very friendly while the council try to bully you and put the fear of god into you.

Thankfully I'm bloody minded and I'm always open for a scrap with the idiots at the council.

 

[Don Quixote]

they just want to steal money from us. We elect these bastards so why don't we do something about it?

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Shit, something did just occur to me - presumably I'd have to go to Camden Council to dispute it... I live near Leeds... Shit.

Ahhh, you didn't mention that key bit of information. Select to have an adjudication by post then. Just make sure to give a very detailed account of what happened and why you think you either didn't commit the offence.

I won my appeal as the adjudicator agreed with me that Brighton Council parking signs are unclear and very confusing. I would suggest you use a similar arguement.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

they just want to steal money from us. We elect these bastards so why don't we do something about it?

If everyone who got these tickets got off their arses and appealed then we could make them think again.

Two serving police officers ( independantly ) gave me advice that you should always appeal speeding tickets ( unless you were going at a really silly speed ). I'm sure Edna will disagree though !

 

[jcdenton08]

Ahhh, you didn't mention that key bit of information. Select to have an adjudication by post then. Just make sure to give a very detailed account of what happened and why you think you either didn't commit the offence.

I won my appeal as the adjudicator agreed with me that Brighton Council parking signs are unclear and very confusing. I would suggest you use a similar arguement.

I shall. They bloody are. I am convinced the only reason for that tiny bit of red painted road is to have a camera permanently trained on it, for revenue.

Same with fixed speed cameras a few metres after a speed limit change. Cynical and frankly disgraceful.

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

I shall. They bloody are. I am convinced the only reason for that tiny bit of red painted road is to have a camera permanently trained on it, for revenue.

Another reason is to give buses a priority and ease congestion , perhaps there is a bus stop there ?

 

[jcdenton08]

Nope.. not one at either end of the bus lane..

 

[Clapham Old Mug]

...cantering in a few hours behind the rest! Have a look at the film (ask them to send you a copy if they're incapable of sticking it on their web site) and see if you can argue that your view of the signs was restricted. Get someone in London to check the signs are there at all - they quite often aren't properly positioned. Appealing is quite straightforward, but you won't get off it unless you can show you really have an excuse.

 

[withdeanwombat]

Tell them you used to be a bus driver and forgot you were in your car.

 

[jcdenton08]

UPDATE:

The online system apparently is "having problems" (cheeky fuckers) so they are sending the video on DVD, and have delayed things for two weeks.