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Well said that man 
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Paul Ince's comments RE: the England team
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"Sometimes, when I played for my country, the boss at my club has said: 'Paul, this might be one worth missing. We've got a massive game on Saturday and the Champions League game on the Tuesday.'"
To which Ince replied:-
Don't worry boss, I'll just be sitting in the centre circle facing the other way, when the real work needs to be done.
Cos Garth Southgate, braver, prepared to put it all on the line for his country, is more of a man.
The Guv'nor, my arse.
To which Ince replied:-
Don't worry boss, I'll just be sitting in the centre circle facing the other way, when the real work needs to be done.
Cos Garth Southgate, braver, prepared to put it all on the line for his country, is more of a man.
The Guv'nor, my arse.
Just like Rome in 98 or Argentina the same year when he produced some of the greatest displays I've ever seen from an England midfielder. He would walk into our team currently head and shoulders above Barry & Parker.
Sheebo
Well-known member
- Jul 13, 2003
- 29,319
He's spot on I agree. Particularly the Champs League thing - it's a joke and IMO the influx of TV money and plastics supporting the big clubs etc have made some attitudes that way. Club and Country should be 2 seperate things entirely, and of course as our own man Gus says, playing for YOUR country is the pinnacle of any pro footballer - and it always should be.
Sheebo
Well-known member
- Jul 13, 2003
- 29,319
Bandage one wasn't it?! Wright hit the post late on... Great night.
- Jul 7, 2003
- 47,501
Think he's got his rose tinted spectacles on a bit there: in the 1980s, John Barnes received plenty of stick as an England player, some racially motivated no doubt, and some because of the perception that he never really turned it on for England apart from in that Brazil match.
And Bobby Robson's team copped a stack of abuse before the 1990 World Cup. Wasn't he verging on resigning at one point?
And Bobby Robson's team copped a stack of abuse before the 1990 World Cup. Wasn't he verging on resigning at one point?
Tony Meolas Loan Spell
Slut Faced Whores
not true. he also did that run and cross in mexico 86 for lineker to score against the argies.
- Jul 7, 2003
- 47,501
And the free kick against the Dutch, in that game we ended up drawing in 1993.
Basically, Barnes made a rod for his own back by scoring that individual goal in the Maracana, and then being SUBLIME for Liverpool while rarely hitting the heights for England.
As for Ince, he's probably right about it not feeling like the same honour to represent the country as it did back then. But worth remembering that European club football is bigger now than it has ever been, the best teams in the world are now indisputeably the best club sides (and not international sides), and we are in a vicious circle between apathetic fans fed up with overpaid players who are shit for England, and overpaid players who therefore feel they are on a hiding to nothing when they play for England. Ince would never have been one to break that chain.
In the 1970s and 80s England matches frequently finished with a chorus of boos and chants of 'What a load of rubbish!'
Mind you at least those booing bothered to turn up. I remember going to see England play East Germany in about 1984 and there were only about 20,000 there
It wasn't a patch on the abuse he had during the 1986 World Cup, where to be fair he appeared absolutely CLUELESS until he stumbled on the idea of Beardsley partnering Lineker.
We lost 1-0 to a really crap Portugal side, then drew 0-0 to Morocco (where Wilkins was sent off and Bryan Robson did his shoulder in). We had to beat Poland which is where he completely changed the side from anything he had tried before. We then hammered them 3-0, did the same to Paraguay and then looked the equal of Argentina in the quarter final. That goal that Barnes provided for Lineker was nearly replicated a few mins later and that would've made it 2-2...
MattBackHome
Well-known member
- Jul 7, 2003
- 11,836
In response to his question, I'd rather play against Barca in a CL final, than in a Euro qualifier against Wales.
Brighton Boy
New member
We were shit when Ince was around and we are still shit now.
Im a regular watcher of England and go to games aswell but after last eyars world cup i decided not to go until Capello leaves.
I agree with Ince that to many players get caps without it being warranted but this is because we have a manager who wants to be "different" or still does not know his best team even after all this time.
An earlier post that said Ince was awesome in the game at Rome and vs Argentina i think are going a little too far. The country and the press just glorified average performances because we simply are not good enough.
Apart from the 5-1 Germany game we have not played with freedom since Euro 96 when even when we lost to Germany we created countless chances.
Too many average players, average manager and to many club managers forcing players hands.
Im a regular watcher of England and go to games aswell but after last eyars world cup i decided not to go until Capello leaves.
I agree with Ince that to many players get caps without it being warranted but this is because we have a manager who wants to be "different" or still does not know his best team even after all this time.
An earlier post that said Ince was awesome in the game at Rome and vs Argentina i think are going a little too far. The country and the press just glorified average performances because we simply are not good enough.
Apart from the 5-1 Germany game we have not played with freedom since Euro 96 when even when we lost to Germany we created countless chances.
Too many average players, average manager and to many club managers forcing players hands.
Brighton Boy
New member
Of course
i did a lol.
Stumpy Tim
Well-known member
Absolute populist claptrap in my opinion. He moans about caps being handed out, but doesn't mention that one of his England managers, Venables, gave out caps to players like Barry Venison.
If players didn't care, they wouldn't bother turning up. But they do, and all they get is grief.
It's very easy to look at yesteryear and talk about how great it was. But it wasn't. Take Euro96. There were tabloid stories about Sherringham going clubbing 2 weeks before the tournament in Portugal, Gazzas drinking (shock horror) and Shearer couldn't hit a barn door for England before that tournament. We were shit against the Swiss, lucky against the Sweaties, soccered Holland off the pitch, were VERY lucky against Spain (who had 2 goals wrongly chalked off for offside) and played well against Germany - so two good performances out of five.
England have been shit for ages
If players didn't care, they wouldn't bother turning up. But they do, and all they get is grief.
It's very easy to look at yesteryear and talk about how great it was. But it wasn't. Take Euro96. There were tabloid stories about Sherringham going clubbing 2 weeks before the tournament in Portugal, Gazzas drinking (shock horror) and Shearer couldn't hit a barn door for England before that tournament. We were shit against the Swiss, lucky against the Sweaties, soccered Holland off the pitch, were VERY lucky against Spain (who had 2 goals wrongly chalked off for offside) and played well against Germany - so two good performances out of five.
England have been shit for ages
grummitts gloves
New member
Can you imagine Gus watching that England game on the telly at home and jumping around his lounge in his own adorable South American style? Waving his arms and shouting at the screen about the way England don't keep possession, can't pass, panic when put under pressure etc etc. It's truly woeful. Until England get a manager that tells them to play proper football, we won't have a chance of winning anything.
HastingsSeagull
Well-known member
THIS!
Though England vs Wales or club against FC Tblisi in champs league qualifying / group stage then England of course!
WC FINAL against anyone or Champs League final against Barca (or anyone) then England obviously!
ROSM
Well-known member
Interesting this because the two most consistently successful England Managers in recent times (Sven and Bobby Robson) both came in for huge amounts of stick and were criticised for who they picked.
Robson failed to get us qualified for the 84 euros but then qualified for
86 w/c (quarter final albeit yes he did strike lucky with beardsley and linekar albeit the press were suggesting that beardsley and hately were the better partnership!!)
88 Euros (failure to get past group stages and 3 defeats)
90 w/c (semi and bar the games against Ireland and Egypt we looked good even when struggling against Cameroon. In hindsight the draw against Ireland didnt look so bad given they oo got to the quarters)
he resigned pre the 90 world cup as englnd wouldnt give him a new contract until after the world cup (and many didnt want him to have one at all).
For Sven we got the 2002 world cup quarters, 2004 euro quarters, 2006 world cup quarters. Now if he could have kept his todger in his trousers and stopped talking to fake sheiks and peter kenyon then who knows??
We've not always been poor, but we have an unrealistic view of what success should be. Albeit I do think that in terms of depth of players we are as low as I can remember given the need to look into premier league reserves and championship players and senior pros 'retiring' from the team. I remember laughing at the Welsh and the Jocks when they needed to look at the second tier to get a team together. That was 10 years ago and now we're matching them.
Robson failed to get us qualified for the 84 euros but then qualified for
86 w/c (quarter final albeit yes he did strike lucky with beardsley and linekar albeit the press were suggesting that beardsley and hately were the better partnership!!)
88 Euros (failure to get past group stages and 3 defeats)
90 w/c (semi and bar the games against Ireland and Egypt we looked good even when struggling against Cameroon. In hindsight the draw against Ireland didnt look so bad given they oo got to the quarters)
he resigned pre the 90 world cup as englnd wouldnt give him a new contract until after the world cup (and many didnt want him to have one at all).
For Sven we got the 2002 world cup quarters, 2004 euro quarters, 2006 world cup quarters. Now if he could have kept his todger in his trousers and stopped talking to fake sheiks and peter kenyon then who knows??
We've not always been poor, but we have an unrealistic view of what success should be. Albeit I do think that in terms of depth of players we are as low as I can remember given the need to look into premier league reserves and championship players and senior pros 'retiring' from the team. I remember laughing at the Welsh and the Jocks when they needed to look at the second tier to get a team together. That was 10 years ago and now we're matching them.
JCL - the new kid in town
Well-known member
- Aug 23, 2011
- 1,864
I feel that Ince is a bit forgetful when it comes to england caps being handed out. If you look back at the "ince years", there were many 1 or 2 cap wonders with players like barry venison, jason wilcox etc getting a handful of games and i do feel that will always be the case.
Uncle Buck
Ghost Writer
- Jul 7, 2003
- 28,071
Also in 1990, England seemed to stumbled across a system that worked. They were dreadful against Ireland playing 4-4-2 and changed to a sweeper system against the Dutch and played the Dutch off the park. Seemingly it was the players that convinced Robson to change the formation. Also the injury to Bryan Robson probably helped the side as it gave Gascoigne more licence and let the younger and quicker Platt play.