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Nhs, R.i.p?
- Thread starter desprateseagull
- Start date
Rangdo
Registered Cider Drinker
Blair's Britain unfortunately. Labour my arse. Conservatives in red ties 
coventrygull
the right one
and their closing wards at our new supper hospital 
tedebear
Legal Alien
This is all getting very American, anyone ever had to have some care at a US hospital?
adrian29uk
New member
- Sep 10, 2003
- 3,389
For a start we have people coming in to this country who are using the NHS and have hardly paid in to the system as regards tax. This costs the NHS money.
Then you have people who have paid their taxes all their life and getting poor service and having to wait to get treatment.
Then you have people not paying Tax but using the NHS. If someone is sick they need to be treated.
Agencies how much are they making out of the NHS by providing key workers?
If you could pay £10.00 a week for NHS and know that
1) waiting times would be down
2) you could see a doctor when you wanted
3) hospital where clean modern places, staff
Would you pay it? I think I would.
Then you have people who have paid their taxes all their life and getting poor service and having to wait to get treatment.
Then you have people not paying Tax but using the NHS. If someone is sick they need to be treated.
Agencies how much are they making out of the NHS by providing key workers?
If you could pay £10.00 a week for NHS and know that
1) waiting times would be down
2) you could see a doctor when you wanted
3) hospital where clean modern places, staff
Would you pay it? I think I would.
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tedebear
Legal Alien
adrian29uk said:
Thats a very simplistic view though...what about all the people on benefits who cannot afford £10, people like myself on maternity leave? £520 a year is quite a lot of money!!
The NHS is an old machine trying to keep up with the current demands, just like the Home Office, although as the NHS is on the front line it gets more press. I believe the NHS get plenty of money to operate - its how they spend it that is coming increasingly and correctly under examination.
adrian29uk
New member
- Sep 10, 2003
- 3,389
For people on benefits then everyone should get treatment.
Currently the NHS is debt, so paying for it is the only way forward.
I would pay tommorow If I had to, in the knowledge that the healthcare I receive would be the very best.
I know we pay enough taxes already, but I just cannot see how the NHS can survive with the amount of people using it.
Some people cant even get life saving drugs due to the cost.
Do they have this problem in France? Apparently you can get treatment straight away and the hospitals are modern and everyone gets treated.
Why is this?
Currently the NHS is debt, so paying for it is the only way forward.
I would pay tommorow If I had to, in the knowledge that the healthcare I receive would be the very best.
I know we pay enough taxes already, but I just cannot see how the NHS can survive with the amount of people using it.
Some people cant even get life saving drugs due to the cost.
Do they have this problem in France? Apparently you can get treatment straight away and the hospitals are modern and everyone gets treated.
Why is this?
desprateseagull
New member
- Thread starter
- #8
just a side poiunt, i cant see how the NHS can lose money, as they take so long to pay hteir (staffing agency) bills.. someone is earning a nice bit of interest from the delay in spending budgeted funds, for sure..
tedebear
Legal Alien
adrian29uk said:
But you already do pay in taxes? Paying more creates private health care, where you feel you get the right to service because you pay, in effect placing yourself before people who can't pay!!
The NHS has been woefully managed. Buildings, assets and people have all been neglected in the governments push to ensure that the public face (waiting lists and queues) are kept to a minimum. Throwing money at the waiting lists is a short term fix which will neglect the long term needs...
Why is France better? because its managed better! The NHS needs to do the same thing to ensure that the ideology of health care in this country remains as it should be ie free to all who need it.
NH bloody S
Disgusting. The NHS was founded on being free at the point of delivery, people simply wont stand for the back door privitisation that this Government has been slowly clawing towards. I know we can't afford the NHS, but can we really afford not to have it either?
I thought we had got away from the 'fund holder' rubbish, all Labour have done with their 'reforms' (sorry I'm about to throw up) is reintroduce fundholding by calling it.. wait for it... "practice-based commissioning".
The NHS is sacking staff it can't replace. It's putting to much emphasis on 'leadership initiatives'.. why pay a bloke with a clipboard £100,000 to tell you the NHS is struggling? Would that money not be better invested at a grass roots level? Outsourcing is privitisation. Make no mistakes about it.
What can the Doctors and Nurses do about this blatant betrayal? Nothing. They can't NOT go to work can they?! I mean, by law they can't. They've sworn oaths which pretty makes the existence of UNISON completely defunct. Apart from their ability to produce media friendly dialogue that is..
Instead of spending BILLIONS OF POUNDS fighting an ILLEGAL war, would that money not be better spent on schools, hospitals and other public sectors?
I hate the f***ing tories, I hate new labour and as for the lib dems.. I'd honestly rather have a country run by peados, rapists and the criminally insane... oh hang on..
</rant>
I hope this makes no sense to most of you. I just had to get that out my system and I'm ok now.. I think..
Christ, I'm so dropping dead at 50.
Now, don't even START on climate change...
Disgusting. The NHS was founded on being free at the point of delivery, people simply wont stand for the back door privitisation that this Government has been slowly clawing towards. I know we can't afford the NHS, but can we really afford not to have it either?
I thought we had got away from the 'fund holder' rubbish, all Labour have done with their 'reforms' (sorry I'm about to throw up) is reintroduce fundholding by calling it.. wait for it... "practice-based commissioning".
The NHS is sacking staff it can't replace. It's putting to much emphasis on 'leadership initiatives'.. why pay a bloke with a clipboard £100,000 to tell you the NHS is struggling? Would that money not be better invested at a grass roots level? Outsourcing is privitisation. Make no mistakes about it.
What can the Doctors and Nurses do about this blatant betrayal? Nothing. They can't NOT go to work can they?! I mean, by law they can't. They've sworn oaths which pretty makes the existence of UNISON completely defunct. Apart from their ability to produce media friendly dialogue that is..
Instead of spending BILLIONS OF POUNDS fighting an ILLEGAL war, would that money not be better spent on schools, hospitals and other public sectors?
I hate the f***ing tories, I hate new labour and as for the lib dems.. I'd honestly rather have a country run by peados, rapists and the criminally insane... oh hang on..
</rant>
I hope this makes no sense to most of you. I just had to get that out my system and I'm ok now.. I think..
Christ, I'm so dropping dead at 50.
Now, don't even START on climate change...
Tom Hark Preston Park
Will Post For Cash
- Jul 6, 2003
- 71,885
Really hope the NHS as a whole doesn't go the way of NHS Dentistry. The NHS receives a kicking left right and centre that it really doesn't deserve and for all its faults, it is infinitely preferable to the US system of Healthcare. Maybe, for sure, charge for things like missed appointments at doctors, cos not charging for that is just abuse of the system, or kick violent drunks who attack NHS staff out of the system or fine them heavily. But the basic concept of the NHS is SOUND and the UK should be proud of it.
adrian29uk
New member
- Sep 10, 2003
- 3,389
Yes I totally agree that the NHS should be free, but I think these days are now gone.
I just cannot see how the hell they can get out of the debt they are in.
As you all say money is not managed correctly, and there are too many people with clipboards you are all 100% correct.
I know nothing about Hospitals but why did I see more people in shirts, ties and Stethoscopes than I did regular nurses in blue and green uniforms when I took my mum in to A&E two weeks ago?
Where is the organisation? Why is it patients are refeered to 5 or six different departments?
I just cannot see how the hell they can get out of the debt they are in.
As you all say money is not managed correctly, and there are too many people with clipboards you are all 100% correct.
I know nothing about Hospitals but why did I see more people in shirts, ties and Stethoscopes than I did regular nurses in blue and green uniforms when I took my mum in to A&E two weeks ago?
Where is the organisation? Why is it patients are refeered to 5 or six different departments?
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tedebear
Legal Alien
Tom Hark said:
Exactly! People in this country don't realize how good they DO actually have it...there are a heck of a lot of worse systems out there!
The NHS isn't there to make money, its expected to run at a loss.. I can't see how it wouldn't. That doesn't mean the debt can't be managed. Its all comes down to good management, not short term fixes.
The days of free health care have not gone, and nor shall they. Tedebear was 100% spot on when she said we already pay for it via our taxes. If you pay more money it becomes private health care. It would mean you demand/deserve better health than Joe Blogs because you are in a stronger situation financially - that is just wrong.
The days of free health care have not gone, and nor shall they. Tedebear was 100% spot on when she said we already pay for it via our taxes. If you pay more money it becomes private health care. It would mean you demand/deserve better health than Joe Blogs because you are in a stronger situation financially - that is just wrong.
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adrian29uk
New member
- Sep 10, 2003
- 3,389
Changing the subject, Privatisation is already happening with schools converting to academies. If you are a teacher and move to an Academy your employment terms and conditions change. The pay scheme changes, and the pension scheme is worse.
But what about the future? If a school is privatised and funded by a company what will the company expect in return. In extreme cases will books need to be handed out a certain way to make sure the company logo is promoted at all times?
Will marketing managers tell teachers how to promote the companies products and services to the kids on top of teaching.
In this extreme this is one reason why privatisation will not work. Secondly people will not train to become teachers.
But what about the future? If a school is privatised and funded by a company what will the company expect in return. In extreme cases will books need to be handed out a certain way to make sure the company logo is promoted at all times?
Will marketing managers tell teachers how to promote the companies products and services to the kids on top of teaching.
In this extreme this is one reason why privatisation will not work. Secondly people will not train to become teachers.
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tedebear
Legal Alien
I think your brains running away with you a bit there 
Privatisation can be a good thing, but also can be a disaster. Education like the NHS - is again ruled by those who selfishly believe that paying extra will get you a better service.
Parents pay private schools more, private schools have more money for teachers, teachers migrate, public sector schools lose teachers, and on and on and on....
Privatisation of the education system will never happen. People who cannot afford to pay do not create profits, what right minded company would go into that, and what right minded country would allow it to happen.
Privatisation can be a good thing, but also can be a disaster. Education like the NHS - is again ruled by those who selfishly believe that paying extra will get you a better service. Parents pay private schools more, private schools have more money for teachers, teachers migrate, public sector schools lose teachers, and on and on and on....
Privatisation of the education system will never happen. People who cannot afford to pay do not create profits, what right minded company would go into that, and what right minded country would allow it to happen.