March 29th, 1986: The Palace Delusion

[Colossal Squid]

I regard Palace as a sort of pantomime villain, you boo and hiss them, but ultimately they are harmless. Put it this way I have more respect for CP supporter than a big teams fan, following a little non-entity club like theirs takes a bit of doing, especially when you consider that they are surrounded by big clubs like Chelsea, Spurs, Arsenal, Orient and Brentford.

Not forgetting the league's newest member, AFC Wimbledon are just 30 minutes away. Then there's Charlton Athletic, not more than 30 minutes in the other direction. Even Dagenham and Redbridge are less than an hour's drive away, as are Ebbsfleet United.

So with al these bigger clubs in their vicinity you have to give Palace's small supporter base credit for sticking with their team

 

[Icy Gull]

Gonna bounce this thread after our two games next season and see how many of you really don't give a f***

 

[bhaexpress]

Gonna bounce this thread after our two games next season and see how many of you really don't give a f***

That may well depend on whether we're above or below them I bet.

 

[El Presidente]

I regard Palace as a sort of pantomime villain, you boo and hiss them, but ultimately they are harmless. Put it this way I have more respect for CP supporter than a big teams fan, following a little non-entity club like theirs takes a bit of doing, especially when you consider that they are surrounded by big clubs like Chelsea, Spurs, Arsenal, Orient and Brentford.

This is my view too. When Palace played United in the FA Cup final I had £10 on O'Reilly to score the first goal at 16/1 too. So it was a big from me that day too.

 

[Muzzy]

I'm afraid I'm with you on this one.

The rivalry with Palace is fun, but my resentment towards Manchester United is nothing but pure unadulterated hate.

I wasn't around for the Palace v Brighton flare ups in the 70s but I have spent enough of my life being mocked by plastic Premiership fans for my unwavering support for my beloved local club. It takes a special kind of dickhead to support Manchester United. Palace fans certainly don't fit the same mould. You could never call a Palace supporter a glory hunter for a start

And I was thinking it was just me that held these irrational beliefs about that horrible lot from the north west.

I was around for the CP games in the 70's but always detested Man ure more! Couldn't stand "The Doc", Ron Atkinson or Norman Whiteside and imho Brian Mclair was the biggest, goal hanging waste of space of a player that I've ever seen in my life!

Oh, and they beat us in the cup if I remember correctly !

Proper tosspot twunts

 

[El Presidente]

The fact that they have taken the piss because we paid our debts by selling our ground and lived within our means, very much unlike them we are now in a position to mock them mercilessly. What goes around etc..

But did they? There were Palace fans at Fans United in 1997.

Some Palace fans are juvenile name calling twats, but they are that irrespective of the club they support. We have plenty of complete bellends in our support base too.

The only way this is not the case is if you say your football club shapes you as a person along with your values. Are you actually saying this?

 

[bhaexpress]

But did they? There were Palace fans at Fans United in 1997.

Some Palace fans are juvenile name calling twats, but they are that irrespective of the club they support. We have plenty of complete bellends in our support base too.

The only way this is not the case is if you say your football club shapes you as a person along with your values. Are you actually saying this?

A handful of a lot of clubs were there. However, unlike me you don't live in the area (were it not for my much needed missionary work I wouldn't either). I think somebody has got up your nose as just about everybody else is just enjoying taking the piss.

 

[narly101]

Why? Rooney aside Utd aren't even that objectionable anymore. If Barca start diving all over the place on saturday I might (and I mean MIGHT) even consider not being upset if they win the champions league final. Surely teams like Chelsea and City are far more loathsome in my opinion. What relevance do you Utd have to us?

1983. Simples.

 

[narly101]

'83.

Taking out Ramsey I think.

Is the correct answer.

 

[paulie]

But did they? There were Palace fans at Fans United in 1997.

Some Palace fans are juvenile name calling twats, but they are that irrespective of the club they support. We have plenty of complete bellends in our support base too.

The only way this is not the case is if you say your football club shapes you as a person along with your values. Are you actually saying this?

Exactly - it's all about performance on the field and the banter. I know performance is linked to how a club is run, but Palace fans could no more control Goldberg and Jordan than Brighton fans could control Archer and Belotti. The fans of the two clubs aren't that different.

And don't forget that for much of the period under discussion (1985-2000) we were well run under Uncle Ron, until Goldberg rocked up.

I'm intrigued to see how we go next year - we may be closer to each other than some think.

Oh - I've just got a text from the club saying we signed Murray,. Is he much cop?

 

[Mackenzie]

This is my view too. When Palace played United in the FA Cup final I had £10 on O'Reilly to score the first goal at 16/1 too. So it was a big from me that day too.

I remember the day well, I was still very happy when Palace lost though.

 

[Joey Deacon's Disco Suit]

But did they? There were Palace fans at Fans United in 1997.

Some Palace fans are juvenile name calling twats, but they are that irrespective of the club they support. We have plenty of complete bellends in our support base too.

The only way this is not the case is if you say your football club shapes you as a person along with your values. Are you actually saying this?

You're as bad as anyone calling Palace fans names. I dont give a toss if the rivalry wasn't always so intense but it feels like it now and from both sides. Trying to drag up some statistic from the 80s to try to prove that it isn't is frankly ridiculous.

If you don't feel the rivalry then fine but just let the rest of us get on with it as we have been doing without this little act you seem to put on when it suits you.

 

[Seagull over Canaryland]

The extra rivalry with Palace was evident in '80s but recall the diminishing crowds diluted the impact. So the prospect of future home games at The Amex in front of bigger crowds will add spice to the renewed rivalry.

Back in the late 70's there seemed to be more edge to many of our fixtures - West Ham, Spurs, Soton, Pompey, Millwall etc. I think the big 25-30k crowds, including at The Goldstone helped, combined with the era of hooliganism with skinheads, less segregation, more standing terraces, no family areas. Lots of old Bill instead of stewards all hyped the tensions. Often these derbies were played on Bank Holidays so the build up was heightened. Good atmospheres with lots of vitriolic banter between the fans and of course the odd bit of 'aggro'. Used to enjoy seeing the police doggies being used to corral the away fans, just as it happened to us when we were away. Compare that to the current liberal hand wringing about 'kettling'....which just makes me smile.

However at that time The Palace thing certainly had the most edge, mainly because at that time we consistently seemed to be rivals for promotion. The atmosphere was spiced up by odd inciteful verbals from Mullery versus Venables, neither of them short of an opinion or two. Whereas managers of the above mentioned clubs were generally more old school (eg Greenwood, Lyall, Birkenshaw, McMenemy come to mind) and less provocative.

Didn't stop one or two players rising to the occasion and crunching tackles seemed more acceptable then, whereas Refs these days seem to think it is a non-contact sport. Peter Ward used to get a fearful kicking. The likes of Kitchener and Bonds wouldn't get away with it now. We had Paul 'tank' Clark......although I thought he calmed down a bit after the Lil Fuschillo incident.

The sweetest way of dealing with the rivalry was seeing the Albion win and especially if Peter Ward made Jim Cannon and Billy Gilbert look silly while Lawrenson made Swindlehurst look like a donkey.

So I look forward to our style of footie doing the talking next season, helped by the big and hopefully very vocal crowds at The Amex. My only concern will be the JCL chavvy types (on both sides) that might feel some fisticuffs are in order - as long as they do that away from our nice new stadium.

 

[On the Left Wing]

I can never understand the rabid hysteria that surrounds our 'rivalry' with Palace. For old bastards like me, the nonsense in the 70s was too long ago for it to matter anymore and for the younger people, how we can even HAVE a rivalry with a team we have played FOUR times (in the league) in the last 22 YEARS

I agree with Hiney ... when I was a much younger old bastard (pre 1978) our rivals were Pompey .. sort of made sense cos they are just along teh coast.
I reckon we should leave Palace behind to the likes of Millwall and Charlton who both hate them!
Time has come to adopt the SCC as our rivals and bette noir ... reasons are simple: their arrogance, Adkins, Harding and Hammond to name four!

 

[Colossal Squid]

I agree with Hiney ... when I was a much younger old bastard (pre 1978) our rivals were Pompey .. sort of made sense cos they are just along teh coast.
I reckon we should leave Palace behind to the likes of Millwall and Charlton who both hate them!
Time has come to adopt the SCC as our rivals and bette noir ... reasons are simple: their arrogance, Adkins, Harding and Hammond to name four!

But they will NEVER consider us a serious rival for all the time Portsmouth exist as a football club. We're an amusing side attraction to them

 

[bhaexpress]

Exactly - it's all about performance on the field and the banter. I know performance is linked to how a club is run, but Palace fans could no more control Goldberg and Jordan than Brighton fans could control Archer and Belotti. The fans of the two clubs aren't that different.

And don't forget that for much of the period under discussion (1985-2000) we were well run under Uncle Ron, until Goldberg rocked up.

I'm intrigued to see how we go next year - we may be closer to each other than some think.

Oh - I've just got a text from the club saying we signed Murray,. Is he much cop?

There's one (maybe two) significant differences between us and Palace, we have never been in administration. Do you honestly think that Palace would have sustained their status had the actually lived within their means as we did ? It's neither here nor there as to what Goldberg (who really did make some huge blunders) and Jordon (quite highly regarded by many BHA fans) did. They spent money they didn't have and Palace (like several others) were allowed to stay in business by paying a small token amount back to their creditors. We have been lower than you because we paid what we could. I just can't see why Palace fans don't get that. Nobody blames Palace fans but the fact remains that you would be no better than us had you not been in administration twice. Now we are on a more even (make that better) situation we do enjoy taking the piss out of your lot.

 

[Hotchilidog]

Reading some the replies to this threadcan I assume that Mike Ward and his controversial programme article can now be considered ahead of their time and that all is forgiven?

 

[ROSM]

What's with the rewrite of the past here?

yes our old rivals were Portsmouth. I still hate them.

then our rivals were Palace (and were the big ones as I started attending and grew up);

The battles for promotion;
Ron Challis;
Terry Venables;
Henry Hughton breaking Ryan's leg;
the 5 penalties;
Robert Codner having his ankle broken;
singing there's only x weeks to Palace in the Northstand as we counted down to the match.

I got beaten up by a Palace fan during a match when we played Fisher Athletic in a pre season friendly (what was he doing there?) and Martin Hinshelwood had to come to my aid.

I recall the game you've mentioned El Presidente and that crowd was 50% up on the average and was during a time of a huge dip in crowds caused by hooliganism and recession. I remember how awaited the game was as well to those of us who were attending games then.

Since then we've had skirmishes with orient, southampton and even cardiff but the big two will always be Portsmouth and Palace and ironically they've both 'benefitted' from the rules of administration which don't in my view have a punishment that fits the crime.

If Murray had gone to either of these I would have been disappointed and to try and ignore or take the past out of context to belittle those who feel that way and expect us all to move on is a pious hope.

 

[Joey Deacon's Disco Suit]

In the past 30 years we've played Palace more times than Millwall have played West Ham or Pompey have played Saints.

Are those not proper rivalries either then?

 

[El Presidente]

You're as bad as anyone calling Palace fans names. I dont give a toss if the rivalry wasn't always so intense but it feels like it now and from both sides. Trying to drag up some statistic from the 80s to try to prove that it isn't is frankly ridiculous.

If you don't feel the rivalry then fine but just let the rest of us get on with it as we have been doing without this little act you seem to put on when it suits you.

Eh?