Is the Government guilty of bribery in business?

[Nottseagull]

A few months ago, I recall Government ministers on their high horses stating how they were going to root out corruption in British business. Today I read that the same Govt. has given unsolicited aid with a view to a favourable consideration of our tender for a defence contract. Is this not an appalling case of hypocrisy?

Last week India rejected the British-built Typhoon jet as preferred candidate for a £6.3 billion warplane deal, despite the Development Secretary, Andrew Mitchell, saying that Britain’s aid to Delhi was partly “about seeking to sell Typhoon.”

India tells Britain: We don't want your aid - Telegraph


"Readers of this article were also interested in this" Couples having sex in public let off with a leaflet - Telegraph..
East Riding Council has cut hedges around the lay-bys to make the areas more visible...
Another case of hypocrisy?

 

[Beach Hut]

The trouble is most defence procurement from countries like India / Saudi etc is partly based about bribery as that is how they do business so it is not really double standards. The point being if you don't participate in negotiating that way you won't even get to the table to do a deal.

 

[Tricky Dicky]

The trouble is most defence procurement from countries like India / Saudi etc is partly based about bribery as that is how they do business so it is not really double standards. The point being if you don't participate in negotiating that way you won't even get to the table to do a deal.

Definitely true, and the arms industry in this country employs hundreds of thousands of people, so these jobs would be at risk without securing these contracts. Guess it doesn't make it right, but it's the real world.

 

[DJ Leon]

The trouble is most defence procurement from countries like India / Saudi etc is partly based about bribery as that is how they do business so it is not really double standards. The point being if you don't participate in negotiating that way you won't even get to the table to do a deal.

So it's OK for the government to be involved in bribery - is that what you're saying?

 

[Beach Hut]

So it's OK for the government to be involved in bribery - is that what you're saying?

If this is the way the country they are dealing with works then yes, any government would do the same as the value of these contracts is massive and ensures people stay in work. Or the alternative is they don't so more people unemployed therefore greater strain on the welfare state.

Business is business at the end of the day.

 

[DJ Leon]

If this is the way the country they are dealing with works then yes, any government would do the same as the value of these contracts is massive and ensures people stay in work. Or the alternative is they don't so more people unemployed therefore greater strain on the welfare state.

Business is business at the end of the day.

So whether it's illegal or not the government is justified in being involved because it keeps people in jobs? Interesting argument. How far does that extend by the way? If the government could strike an illegal arms deal with Syria whilst they are killing their citizens would that be OK as long as it kept British jobs?

 

[Beach Hut]

So whether it's illegal or not the government is justified in being involved because it keeps people in jobs? Interesting argument. How far does that extend by the way? If the government could strike an illegal arms deal with Syria whilst they are killing their citizens would that be OK as long as it kept British jobs?

I would say no to that as there is a known factor, in India by winning a contract to supply fighter planes does not mean they will kill their own people.

There needs to some logic in what you are saying which is more a judgement call.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

So whether it's illegal or not the government is justified in being involved because it keeps people in jobs? Interesting argument. How far does that extend by the way? If the government could strike an illegal arms deal with Syria whilst they are killing their citizens would that be OK as long as it kept British jobs?

I'm not sure bribery costs many lives !

As someone who used to work in the defence industry I can assure you we wouldn't have very many customers for our arms if we DIDN'T work in that way. I'm sure the holier than thou attitude is fine when your mortgage etc doesn't depend on these deals but when it does it makes a BIG difference.

Besides, it's no different to the tax breaks given to companies like car manufacturers to locate in this country - is that not bribery as well ?

 

[Beach Hut]

I'm not sure bribery costs many lives !

As someone who used to work in the defence industry I can assure you we wouldn't have very many customers for our arms if we DIDN'T work in that way. I'm sure the holier than thou attitude is fine when your mortgage etc doesn't depend on these deals but when it does it makes a BIG difference.

Besides, it's no different to the tax breaks given to companies like car manufacturers to locate in this country - is that not bribery as well ?

Very good point about tax breaks as I am sure Nissan and Honda received very generous "breaks" when they decided to build huge car making plants at Derby and Sunderland.

 

[Nottseagull]

If this is the way the country they are dealing with works then yes, any government would do the same as the value of these contracts is massive and ensures people stay in work. Or the alternative is they don't so more people unemployed therefore greater strain on the welfare state.

Business is business at the end of the day.

Definitely true, and the arms industry in this country employs hundreds of thousands of people, so these jobs would be at risk without securing these contracts. Guess it doesn't make it right, but it's the real world.

I don't disagree, but the point people seem to be missing is that the Govt. is considering making criminals out of those in lesser concerns (i.e. smaller companies) who are doing the same as they are.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

I don't disagree, but the point people seem to be missing is that the Govt. is considering making criminals out of those in lesser concerns (i.e. smaller companies) who are doing the same as they are.

Are they ? Not sure I agree with you. If for no other reason than the "Government" produces nothing - private defence companies do all the making - it's just they need a licence from the government to sell arms.

 

[cunning fergus]

I can't believe that we didnt get the Olympics with greasing a few corrupt IOC wheels along the way. Anyone who thinks different is a buffoon.

I suspect the amount of grease it would have taken for the FIFA wheels was just too much for the Government to lay out and so the bigger payments made by Russia and Qatar won out.

The real shame with our World Cup bid was that the FA starting crying about bribes etc. at the end when for the most part they (and the UK Govt) had happily played along with the modus operandi of all bidding nations with goodie bags here and Mulberry handbags there.

Fact is politicans (of all flavours) are largely politcians through different acts of bribery............they are masters of the craft, which is why they should all be gassed.