Dons supporters call for MK to change name

[readingstockport]

Quite wrong, we had the ground sold to pay debts. Wimbledon lost their fan base over a period of time hence their decline. There is no comparison as far too many of the original Wimbledon fans couldn't be bothered to go to Selhurst Park. It's fair to say that whilst Selhurst is not the greatest ground in the country Plough Lane made it look like Wembley.

Of course I was in no way being serious in what I said then. I was pointing out the idiocy of your statement and the fact that it could very easily be turned against BHA fans in the same way. Wimbledon fans fought long and hard to regain a ground in Merton, even paying privately for feasability studies into sites which were then both rejected out of hand by koppell and actively campaigned against by koppell and the norwegians.

To say that the move was the fault of Wimbledon fans is an ignorant statement to say the least and some would say it is willfully false.

 

[Simster]

And if BHA fans had got behind their club then your team would still be playing at the goldstone instead of spending several years as pikies at Gillingham then having to play at a running track before FINALLY managing to get a decent ground. But you didn't support your team properly then did you which is why you lost the goldstone.

I know you are playing devils advocate and I would say I agree with your tone. The sanctimony of some Albion fans towards Wimbledon supporters who apparently didn't fight for their club or let it die because their gates weren't big enough ( ) beggars belief. Primarily because it is total bollocks.

 

[Simster]

Of course I was in no way being serious in what I said then. I was pointing out the idiocy of your statement and the fact that it could very easily be turned against BHA fans in the same way. Wimbledon fans fought long and hard to regain a ground in Merton, even paying privately for feasability studies into sites which were then both rejected out of hand by koppell and actively campaigned against by koppell and the norwegians.

To say that the move was the fault of Wimbledon fans is an ignorant statement to say the least and some would say it is willfully false.

This is 100% correct. It is also true to say that they received little help from the council who didn't realise what an asset the football club had become, and their jobs were made much harder by the obsene lies of Sam Hammam and the council, both of whom had a nasty habit of telling WISA one thing and saying another behind closed doors.

 

[Brovion]

No they didn't. Their fan base was constantly increasing, until word got out that they wanted to relocate. Wimbledon were first promoted to the top flight on gates of under 6,000. Had they re-located to a 20,000 stadium in Merton, they'd have been just fine, not unlike some of the other smaller Premiership clubs.

The fact that the gates at Fulham (3 tube stops away) have topped 25,000 just as Wimbledon were moved to MK and AFCW only found a place to play in Kingston is not a coincidence either. I know of people (friends of friends) who are now STHs at Fulham who were STHs at Wimbledon in the Plough Lane and Selhurst days...

What do you think should have happened? I'm not asking aggressively, but was there a realistic alternative to moving to MK? As I said above I know at the time I was outraged, but in retrospect I'm not so sure that it hasn't worked out ok for all concerned.

 

[readingstockport]

Considering there was more than one site in Merton identified as feasible then the owners could have put pressure on Merton council to allow a ground to be built.

Sadly at the time that was not likely as the council were resolutely opposed to football and the council were supported in this by the owners of Wimbledon FC who wanted in on a property development in milton keynes involving asda. The fact the owners of Wimbledon at the time were then cut out of the development by winkelman is small justice.

The fact a club has managed to start in the lower leagues, play their way to league status and is now involved in discussions with Merton Council about a return to the borough with council supports shows what could have been done had the will been there. The will was not there because business men wanted to make money ouf of a football club and f*** the fans.

 

[Simster]

What do you think should have happened? I'm not asking aggressively, but was there a realistic alternative to moving to MK? As I said above I know at the time I was outraged, but in retrospect I'm not so sure that it hasn't worked out ok for all concerned.

Well I think they could have stayed at Selhurst until a stadium had been found back in the borough. I'm fairly sure that eventually a solution would have been found. AFCW are a league 2 team now, and there are now plans in place apparently - there is a big industrial area between South Wimbledon and Morden (near where the Bill used to be filmed) which has been earmarked as a suitable site. There are a few obstacles in the way, however.

I could never understand why they didn't groundshare with Fulham, to be honest. Maybe Fulham said no, but it was always a much easier journey to make than to Selhurst.

 

[sten_super]

What do you think should have happened? I'm not asking aggressively, but was there a realistic alternative to moving to MK? As I said above I know at the time I was outraged, but in retrospect I'm not so sure that it hasn't worked out ok for all concerned.

Surely the worst case scenario (of Wimbledon as a football club not being viable) would have been for them to wind their way down the leagues until they reached a point which was sustainable (even if that was in something akin to their current situation, sharing Kingstonians ground and playing in League Two/the Conference), and their place in the higher leagues taken by a team that earned it on merit. Instead Winkelman set up an entirely new club and ported them straight into the football league.

I know time has passed, and time does (hopefully) heal the wounds at least a bit, but it doesn't make what MK did any more acceptable.

 

[Simster]

Considering there was more than one site in Merton identified as feasible then the owners could have put pressure on Merton council to allow a ground to be built.

Sadly at the time that was not likely as the council were resolutely opposed to football and the council were supported in this by the owners of Wimbledon FC who wanted in on a property development in milton keynes involving asda. The fact the owners of Wimbledon at the time were then cut out of the development by winkelman is small justice.

The fact a club has managed to start in the lower leagues, play their way to league status and is now involved in discussions with Merton Council about a return to the borough with council supports shows what could have been done had the will been there. The will was not there because business men wanted to make money ouf of a football club and f*** the fans.

Another travesty was that the Plough Lane site itself remained derelict for the best part of two decades while the council turned down planning permission on supermarkets and flats.

 

[readingstockport]

Is correct Simster. And now it is flats.

But hey, sam hamman walked away a rich man and f***ed the fans over so, in the view of some on here it seems, that's ok.

 

[Hotchilidog]

Given AFC's rise to the Football League I think it entirely appropriate that MK consider dropping the Dons moniker. To be honest I think that MK wouldn't mind dropping it either as they can give up the pretence of ever having any connection with Wimbledon Fc and get on with establishing their own identity.

I cannot for the life of me understand the criticism of AFC from some quarters on here. Wimbledon's move to MK was designed to be a permanent measure so that the board could profit from milking an untapped market. When the Albion moved to Gillingham there was still something to fight for, as the club shared the desire of the fans to return to Brighton. The owners of MK had no such intention, their new home was the desired destination, once they had moved Wimbledon FC was DEAD.

What AFC have achieved from holding player trials in a park to finally achieving league status nine years later is nothing short of remarkable and is to be applauded. The Wimbledon fans took action, put their money and time where the mouth was and have finally reaped the rewards and I wish them all the best.

Interestingly enough if Winkelman had the patience and vision he could have got the existing MK team into the league in the same time frame.

 

[Brovion]

So there really wasn't any realistic alternative then. (except Sten's idea that the club drift back down to it's natural level, perhaps by going back to Plough Lane). The rest is just hot air, pious waffle, lies, broken promises, wishful thinking, regrets, dreams, stubborn councils, bad owners etc.

It will be interesting to see if Merton Council are any more helpful this time round.

 

[Simster]

So there really wasn't any realistic alternative then.

It's llike you haven't bothered reading the replies you asked for.

Why couldn't they have stayed 3 miles away in Selhurst, while waiting for a site to become available? And even sten's idea that you deem only suitable as an afterthought is MUCH fairer than Winkelman and the city of MK just stealing the club.

 

[ROSM]

So there really wasn't any realistic alternative then. (except Sten's idea that the club drift back down to it's natural level, perhaps by going back to Plough Lane). The rest is just hot air, pious waffle, lies, broken promises, wishful thinking, regrets, dreams, stubborn councils, bad owners etc.

It will be interesting to see if Merton Council are any more helpful this time round.

For my sins, I had many dealings with Merton and Milton keynes council (amongst others).

Merton had been strung along by Sam Hamman and in the beginning they were willing to assist and help but their patience ran out with him after the council had expended significant funds on feasibility schemes, investigations, reviews etc for sites that were then used by him to try and leverage deals from other councils including Dublin.

Their joy at his departure was only tempered when they then had to deal with the Norwegian owners who had bought a Premiership club and a series of 'half truths' by Hamman including enabling developments.

Dont forget also that Hamman at one stage wanted in on a ground share with Brighton.

Merton were supportive of doing a deal with Wimbledon but with the proviso that the club had a significant shareholding from the fans and a limit on enabling development (so in effect funds needed to be injected by the club).

In my dealings I always found the planners of Merton to be enabling people (i.e. seem to want to enable developments rather than come up with reasons to block them).

As for the MK mob - they mentioned in 1999 that they had plans for a football club and were actively tendering to get one. They didn't seem to care about impacts on their neighbours like Northampton. they also said it was not viable to support the team they already had - which ironically were the same level that AFC Wimbledon started at and with Investment could reasonably have been expected to be the same level MK Dons now are.

 

[readingstockport]

And lets not forget that mk and wankieman initially approached, in no order

Leyton Orient
Barnet
Brentford
QPR
and iirc he may have spoken to Palace as well.

Then finally he got the team of his dreams, Wimbledon.

 

[stonski]

There once was an MK City before MK Dons came to town, they went bust! Another casualty of Franchise FC.

 

[bhaexpress]

I know you are playing devils advocate and I would say I agree with your tone. The sanctimony of some Albion fans towards Wimbledon supporters who apparently didn't fight for their club or let it die because their gates weren't big enough ( ) beggars belief. Primarily because it is total bollocks.

No it isn't, as I used to live there I not only met a lot of Wimbledon fans who said as such (at home games) but I've also met a lot of their fans who couldn't be bothered to travel all the way to Selhurst Park. Well done to AFC Wimbledon but this Milton Keynes issue is dead and buried.

 

[Icy Gull]

It's llike you haven't bothered reading the replies you asked for.

Why couldn't they have stayed 3 miles away in Selhurst, while waiting for a site to become available? And .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:WimbledonFCleagueattendances.png

They would have gone down the pan without a shadow of a doubt, look at the crowd figures, calculate the rent and tell me that they wouldn't have folded

IMO there is too much "idealism" in retrospect about Wimbledon fc. Wimbledon AFC are now back and the team who took them over have considerably larger gates than they had when the franchise 1st took place. It seems most who are so adamant that there was real wrong doing ignore the fact that the owners of Wimbledon didn't want to keep on losing money hand over fist with what looked like NIL chance of getting a ground in the Wimbledon area. There were no fans willing/capable to step in and save them from what I can see? There was no Dick Knight with a massive groundswell of support in short.

 

[readingstockport]

You can't see very well then can you? I have already told you that the fans paid for several feasability studies that identified possible ground sites and all those proposals were rejected without consideration by the owners. In fact the owners actively campaigned against some of them to PREVENT a return to Merton.

Koppell recieved several offers to buy the club from fans, including at least one from a friend of mine, and all offers were rejected out of hand.

You may have swallowed the propoganda of the franchisers but stop trying to pretend you know more about it than people who were involved at the time.

 

[sod1]

Franchise United Club of Keynes

 

[Icy Gull]

The move to Gillingham was not permanent and irrevocable. Once again you display your complete ignorance of the situation.

Wrong, we did not know that at the time it happened or as a Stockport fan are you suggesting you know better than me on this as well?

Try not to be so condescending with people who have a different viewpoint than you eh?