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Andrew Marr's History of Modern Britain
- Thread starter bigc
- Start date
Gully
Monkey in a seagull suit.
Very good programme, it showed that whatever you think of Thatcher (I hate her as much as the next man) she did inherit a Britain that was pretty much on its knees. I have to admit that I didn't know that the previous Tory Govt had effectively been ended by the miners, hence her determination to take them on and punish them for their earlier efforts.
She did do a fairly good job in the beginning, until the megalomania set in towards the end of her reign and it all started going down the toilet. Andrew Marr makes some good points and presents the important facts, plus some of the bits you might otherwise miss out, in a format that is easy to understand...a sort of compact decade of British History in each episode.
She did do a fairly good job in the beginning, until the megalomania set in towards the end of her reign and it all started going down the toilet. Andrew Marr makes some good points and presents the important facts, plus some of the bits you might otherwise miss out, in a format that is easy to understand...a sort of compact decade of British History in each episode.
- Thread starter
- #6
I was at Varndean last year, I'm at UCL now, but my summer has started early.
My dad will be happy to know you watched that programme reuters, don't forget individuals, circumstances and events
Gully, the interesting thing, well, what I'd argue is that she succeeded for the same reason she had her downfall. The same conviction she showed in the early 80s that did her so well went badly wrong in the late 80s, but if she hadnt been that way, she'd have crumbled at the start.
He only really touched upon the paradox of economic liberalism but social authoritanism(think section 28), he simply (rightly though) said "when you're freeing people, you dont necessarily know what you are freeing them too", although that was more to do with excessive consumerism.
My dad will be happy to know you watched that programme reuters, don't forget individuals, circumstances and events
Gully, the interesting thing, well, what I'd argue is that she succeeded for the same reason she had her downfall. The same conviction she showed in the early 80s that did her so well went badly wrong in the late 80s, but if she hadnt been that way, she'd have crumbled at the start.
He only really touched upon the paradox of economic liberalism but social authoritanism(think section 28), he simply (rightly though) said "when you're freeing people, you dont necessarily know what you are freeing them too", although that was more to do with excessive consumerism.
Gully
Monkey in a seagull suit.
The thing that struck me was that she privatised all the nationalised industries, the profits supposedly went to the shareholders, the money made helped balance the books at a time when we had a series of particularly inept Chancellors of the Exchequer. It makes me wonder what sort of rail network we would have if it had remained nationalised but all the profits had been re-invested in the infrastructure. Many will probably argue that the rail network was shagged and it took the investment from the private sector to build it back up to what it is today, I guess we will never know.
- Thread starter
- #9
Rail privatisation was actually post her, John Major did it in stages from 1994 onwards. It was quite botched, the fact they broke it up into so many different parts(around 100 in total!) didn't help. If anyone remembers Connex South Central or South Eastern, then more damage was done to the rail service during that time.
Now Network Rail is publically owned so we are in an odd state of affairs! Privatisation put on hold many plans while everything had to be rejigged, meaning we got stuck with slam door trains until 2005.
Now Network Rail is publically owned so we are in an odd state of affairs! Privatisation put on hold many plans while everything had to be rejigged, meaning we got stuck with slam door trains until 2005.
Yup, thought it was a very interesting programme and well presented - Andrew Marr is so much more than just a politicla pundit / correspondent. I think he is pretty under-rated and I hope the BBc give him more opportunites to do this sort of stuff in the future.
The footage of the Poll Tax riot was especially poignant for me. I was on a bus trying to cross Trafalgar Square when that was kicking off. I had been at working in the loading bay at Marks and Spencer at Marble Arch all day, and had no idea what was going on! In the end I had to get off the bus and leg it through lines of coppers and people lobbing traffic cones and lumps of concrete, wondering why their were police cars burning etc.
Just on the point about the railways, noted above. I live in a village with a direct rail service to Cambridge. Takes about 20 minutes. Myself and a friend were going to Cambridge at the weekend. First thought was to get the train, so we could both have a drink, but 2 return tix would have cost the best part of £15. In the end, we took the car and parked for 50p an hour. We'd rather have taken the train, but until the pricing gets sorted out, I can't imagaine that I ever will.
Gully
Monkey in a seagull suit.
The thing that annoyed me about the poll tax, speaking as an Englishman who has lived north of the border, was that they forced it on the Scots before trying it out on the rest of us. My suspicion has always been that they knew it to be a failure in waiting but had already forced the legislation through Parliament so it was too late to turn it off. The Scots, who need little encouragement to berate the Sassenach Government who rule them from London, had more powder in their cannon after that failure. Andrew Marr alluded to the fact that Thatcher disliked northerners, in particular the Scousers...add to that the Welsh and Scots and you have the whole of the picture...the miners strike and poll tax fiasco helped cement her in their affections.
Gully
Monkey in a seagull suit.
You are probably right about the devolution theory, perhaps she was calculating that might have been the effect, if you look at what it might have achieved. The vast majority of Labour MPs, until Tony made it fashionable, came from Scotland, Wales and the North...by devolving the first two it may have led to a reduction in Labour MPs at Westminster, resulting in a far easier ride for the Tories to get their way.
- Thread starter
- #14
I'm not sure, she didn't like threats to her power in her own cabinet let alone in other elected bodies, hence the abolition of the GLC and the metropolitian councils and the growth in the mysterious quangos, often seen as the worst examples of cash guzzling unelected institutions.
I think one of the most fundamental things she did was break down the old boys network, that old paternal tory ideal of everyone having their set place but looking out for the lesser souls, and replaced it with anyone can climb up the ladder. Perhaps the biggest failing was the fact there was no real creation of "togetherness" or "inclusion" and while taking apart these so called inefficent old institutions, no real unity was created in the new system.
I think one of the most fundamental things she did was break down the old boys network, that old paternal tory ideal of everyone having their set place but looking out for the lesser souls, and replaced it with anyone can climb up the ladder. Perhaps the biggest failing was the fact there was no real creation of "togetherness" or "inclusion" and while taking apart these so called inefficent old institutions, no real unity was created in the new system.
Curious Orange
Punxsatawney Phil
Of course, they can't really do that these days, what with the Scots ruling the Scots from both London AND Edinburgh these days!!
tedebear
Legal Alien
Excellent program - filled in a lot of blanks for me....
Bevendean Hillbilly
New member
Most Interesting bit for me was the view Marr took of the North Sea Oil Bonanza.
I had'nt really considered, until then, that the extra revenue it generated dropped into Thatchers lap and basically gave her a slush fund with which to implement her policies. Marr pointed out that the Tories & Thatcher herself have "shamefully" airbrushed that out of their memoirs and instead attempted to take complete credit for the "economic miracle" that followed.
I also had not realised just how driven she was to push through her ideas, weathering pressure that even Churchill would have baulked at, and whilst I detest what she stood for, I have to admire her determination and courage.
I had'nt really considered, until then, that the extra revenue it generated dropped into Thatchers lap and basically gave her a slush fund with which to implement her policies. Marr pointed out that the Tories & Thatcher herself have "shamefully" airbrushed that out of their memoirs and instead attempted to take complete credit for the "economic miracle" that followed.
I also had not realised just how driven she was to push through her ideas, weathering pressure that even Churchill would have baulked at, and whilst I detest what she stood for, I have to admire her determination and courage.
Tesco in Disguise
Where do we go from here?
i never associate the 80s with anything good. yuppies, strikes, nationalism, thatcher, and horrible music. i'm just glad they've passed.
marr's closing statement was right, tho. we are all children of thatcher. anyone who's heard the tannoy say "connex south-east apologises for the invonvenience" can testify to that.
marr's closing statement was right, tho. we are all children of thatcher. anyone who's heard the tannoy say "connex south-east apologises for the invonvenience" can testify to that.
Pavilionaire
Well-known member
- Jul 7, 2003
- 31,092
Marr's programme was excellent, it flowed well in a cohesive timeline and the music was spot on.
I thought he was fair and his views were spot on, particularly about the fact that North Sea Oil revenues were key to keeping the economy going and were the equivalent to 10% of tax revenue received annually by the Exchequer.
She was certainly a lucky PM. To have had North Sea Oil, the Falklands, inept Opposition leadership and the computer boom certainly helped her.
I thought he was fair and his views were spot on, particularly about the fact that North Sea Oil revenues were key to keeping the economy going and were the equivalent to 10% of tax revenue received annually by the Exchequer.
She was certainly a lucky PM. To have had North Sea Oil, the Falklands, inept Opposition leadership and the computer boom certainly helped her.
Dick Knights Mumm
Take me Home Falmer Road
.............. whilst having no qualms about selling the family silver.