[Albion] We need a settled defensive unit

beefypigeon · 2024-09-19T14:06:27+0100

It's horses for courses, and I think we have demonstrated so far that we are a little more adaptable now than in the De Zerbi era.

I would expect that we would setup more defensively against the better sides (i.e. like we did at Arsenal), where we were competitive the entire game. We were a little more open at home to Utd but we ended up with 3 points because we took the gamble.

Forest this weekend will be a telling fixture for me. They'll dig in, defend deep and hit us on the break. I think Wieffer will be a pivotal player for us from now on, he looks mustard and I think his presence in the middle of the pitch will really help sure us up. I hope he's fit enough to start this weekend!

Reddleman · 2024-09-19T14:11:20+0100

Han Solo said:
First goal last night is never on him and all about our players leaving him in a 1v2 that became a 1.5v3 once Moder woke up and Guedes joined the party.
Every team we've played so far has put all their eggs in the "lets harrass their young full back" basket.

Unfortunately for them, Jack has dealt with it way too well and no one has been able to beat us.

Sorry I disagree, he never closed down the player with the ball, nor was he aware of runner behind him. He was in no man’s land

CheeseRolls · 2024-09-19T14:23:05+0100

W1A said:
Last night’s really wasn’t. Look at where Moder and Minteh are, Hinsh had to try and hold his man up to give them a chance to track the runner and they just completely neglected that responsibility.

Thanks - I was starting to think my drink had been spiked last night, reading some of the criticism. Spot on and backs up what the manager said.

Also last night Baleba scored a wonderful solo goal. When he took the ball not far outside the area, there were 5 Brighton players in front of him. The press was superb and the Wolves player had nowhere to go. If we are going to commit that many players forward we have to accept that we may get caught on the break. There is a time and a place for this of course, but I am happy to watch - We're going to score one more than you football.

Han Solo · 2024-09-19T14:37:47+0100

Reddleman said:
Sorry I disagree, he never closed down the player with the ball, nor was he aware of runner behind him. He was in no man’s land

So which one do you want him to do? Close down the player or keep the runner in a passing shadow?
He can't go into pressure there because he's in a 1v2 without any support. He needs to keep a position where the opponent can't freely walk into the more central parts of the penalty area with the bal,l while also making trying to stop him from making a very easy pass to his team mate.

If everyone do what they should in a 2v1 situation, the duo comes up top. The solution for the defending team is to make it a 2v2 very rapidly. Hinshelwoods positioning gave Moder a lot of time to come and help him, but the help never came. Don't see how you can blame Jack for getting overplayed in a 1v2 where no one in our team can be arsed to help him out.

Would you blame Veltman for a goal if Doku and De Bruyne came against him in a 2v1 for 10 seconds while our midfielders are jogging around thinking about their half time cigarette?

Greg Bobkin · 2024-09-19T14:51:03+0100

Marshy said:
Weiffer, Baleba and Oriley when fit will stiffen us up for sure.

But we do play a high line at times, if the press is not perfect its so easy to drop it in behind and we are all running towards our own goal...

We will get better at it for sure

However we will be on the end of some hidings i agree until then

Fnarr, Fnarr :lolol:

Greg Bobkin · 2024-09-19T14:53:50+0100

Nobby Cybergoat said:
In some ways this a funny assertion to start a thread, we’ve not conceded masses of goals. However we are coughing up a large number of high quality chances and it seems only a matter of time before we start conceding more than our forwards have a chance to get at the other end

I found last night alarming, less in the individual errors made by Steele, Igor etc as those are priced into to risk taking football for me. But, as a collective, we were pulled out of shape badly at times and were lucky not to be punished. The structure has also looked pretty wobbly in several league games, for example Hinsh wondering infield from LB and nobody covering the gap several times

The way I would go with it if I were the manager would be to pick a back 4 and covering midfield 2, and stick with them for 10 or so games, league and cup to try and get that base understanding each other.

It would be something like

-------------Verbruggen

Veltman Van Hecke Dunk Estupinan

-----------Baleba Wieffer

I don’t mind if he’d prefer Ferdi in there or Hinsh. I don't really mean to discuss the personnel. But I’d like to see us work on our new structure with settled base in this part of the pitch. Pray for no injuries for a month or so!

Up front, of course, we can continue to perm in 4, from about 10, on either a form based or horses for courses selection policy

It was a cup game, there were always going to be changes. Better to have time on the pitch for these guys so they are as ready as they can be when called upon because of injuries, suspension or rotation (all three will almost certainly happen).

Reddleman · 2024-09-19T15:12:55+0100

Han Solo said:
So which one do you want him to do? Close down the player or keep the runner in a passing shadow?
He can't go into pressure there because he's in a 1v2 without any support. He needs to keep a position where the opponent can't freely walk into the more central parts of the penalty area with the bal,l while also making trying to stop him from making a very easy pass to his team mate.

If everyone do what they should in a 2v1 situation, the duo comes up top. The solution for the defending team is to make it a 2v2 very rapidly. Hinshelwoods positioning gave Moder a lot of time to come and help him, but the help never came. Don't see how you can blame Jack for getting overplayed in a 1v2 where no one in our team can be arsed to help him out.

Would you blame Veltman for a goal if Doku and De Bruyne came against him in a 2v1 for 10 seconds while our midfielders are jogging around thinking about their half time cigarette?

If he busts a gut to close down the man with the ball it makes it much harder for them to play the pass behind him if they can play it at all. Chances are they they turn back to recycle the ball. Sure the player with the ball may take him on but that’s where he needs to back himself. In the end he didn’t impact the attack in any way. Hes young so he will learn and it’s not his best position but it was poor defending. You mentioned Man City and I guarantee you Kyle Walker doesn’t defend the situation in the same way.

Han Solo · 2024-09-19T15:15:22+0100

Reddleman said:
If he busts a gut to close down the man with the ball it makes it much harder for them to play the pass behind him if they can play it at all. Chances are they they turn back to recycle the ball. Sure the player with the ball may take him on but that’s where he needs to back himself. In the end he didn’t impact the attack in any way. Hes young so he will learn and it’s not his best position but it was poor defending. You mentioned Man City and I guarantee you Kyle Walker doesn’t defend the situation in the same way.

Likewise I guarantee you Rodri doesn't defend the situation the way Moder did...

Pavilionaire · 2024-09-19T15:25:11+0100

I don't think we've spent £30 mill on Kadioglu for him to sit on the bench. He's going to start either at LB or RB, the question is where.

I think you either go Veltman RB and Ferdi LB OR Ferdi RB Pervis LB. Hinsh is better at RB than LB and Veltman is our best defensive RB - as he showed vs Arsenal. I also think Hinsh is better in a right midfield role than either RB or LB.

Overall, I'd play Veltman RB, Ferdi LB and see how it goes.

kevo · 2024-09-19T15:26:46+0100

With our two best centre backs out, of course we are going to be vulnerable defensively. Hopefully, there will be few occasions in the EPL when we are without both Dunk and JPVH. I think Hinshelwood struggles at full-back at times - Saka was running absolute rings round him at the Emirates and he was at fault for Wolves first goal. Pervis has also been poor so far this season. I think Webster is usually decent when called upon, but wasn't great last night.

Reddleman · 2024-09-19T15:59:31+0100

Han Solo said:
Likewise I guarantee you Rodri doesn't defend the situation the way Moder did...

I have made my views on Moders perform e clear elsewhere

SeagullsoverLondon · 2024-09-19T16:36:34+0100

Nobby Cybergoat said:
Ok maybe. But i'm trying to make a point less about team selection, than the need for a bit more familiarity. It's really about the need to pick a group of 6, now (touch wood) players are coming back from injury and let them get used to our new system

Hinsh has done a great job, but i'm not sure shunting around our back line and having umpteen different midfield combos already is helping us be defensively organised. I totally get this has been down to injury.

The reality is even if you are not RdZ, some tinkering of lineups is inevitable, and players need to come in and adapt. And I would say JH is very adaptable.

I could be wrong, but I think Jack H has played more minutes than any other Brighton player this season, 4 whole games + 67 minutes on Saturday.

Which would suggest the manager has a lot of faith to keep picking him, despite having at least 4 other full back options.

I think people have also forgotten that Jack is 19 years old and actually a midfield player.

This may sound a little crazy and far fetched, but I remember Liverpool having a really good young midfield prospect once, but for his first season or two as a teenager, he was often played at right back to get him used to top flight football. His name was Steven Gerrard, and I think he did alright in the end.

dazzer6666 · 2024-09-19T18:19:58+0100

SeagullsoverLondon said:
The reality is even if you are not RdZ, some tinkering of lineups is inevitable, and players need to come in and adapt. And I would say JH is very adaptable.

I could be wrong, but I think Jack H has played more minutes than any other Brighton player this season, 4 whole games + 67 minutes on Saturday.

Which would suggest the manager has a lot of faith to keep picking him, despite having at least 4 other full back options.

I think people have also forgotten that Jack is 19 years old and actually a midfield player.

This may sound a little crazy and far fetched, but I remember Liverpool having a really good young midfield prospect once, but for his first season or two as a teenager, he was often played at right back to get him used to top flight football. His name was Steven Gerrard, and I think he did alright in the end.

….beginning to think also that Hinshelwood is becoming one of those ‘has to be in the team’ players (like Groß).

Han Solo · 2024-09-19T18:22:51+0100

dazzer6666 said:
….beginning to think also that Hinshelwood is becoming one of those ‘has to be in the team’ players (like Groß).

I think we need to be a little bit more careful than we are now. I know thats a very boring thing to think, but U21 players need to have their game time managed or you're gambling a bit with their fitness.

dazzer6666 · 2024-09-19T18:27:31+0100

Han Solo said:
I think we need to be a little bit more careful than we are now. I know thats a very boring thing to think, but U21 players need to have their game time managed or you're gambling a bit with their fitness.

Agree. He’s already had one stress fracture. Hopefully our new medical team have a bit more influence

SeagullsoverLondon · 2024-09-19T18:33:38+0100

dazzer6666 said:
Agree. He’s already had one stress fracture. Hopefully our new medical team have a bit more influence

Yes, as well as he has done, I assume he will be on the bench for a few games now, until the inevitable injuries come along

dazzer6666 · 2024-09-19T18:34:48+0100

SeagullsoverLondon said:
Yes, as well as he has done, I assume he will be on the bench for a few games now, until the inevitable injuries come along

I’m not so sure……

aolstudios · 2024-09-19T18:39:33+0100

Han Solo said:
So which one do you want him to do? Close down the player or keep the runner in a passing shadow?
He can't go into pressure there because he's in a 1v2 without any support. He needs to keep a position where the opponent can't freely walk into the more central parts of the penalty area with the bal,l while also making trying to stop him from making a very easy pass to his team mate.

If everyone do what they should in a 2v1 situation, the duo comes up top. The solution for the defending team is to make it a 2v2 very rapidly. Hinshelwoods positioning gave Moder a lot of time to come and help him, but the help never came. Don't see how you can blame Jack for getting overplayed in a 1v2 where no one in our team can be arsed to help him out.

Would you blame Veltman for a goal if Doku and De Bruyne came against him in a 2v1 for 10 seconds while our midfielders are jogging around thinking about their half time cigarette?

Don't disagree with any of that.
It's very likely though that JV, being a specialist right back would be ahead of things positionally in most cases. It's what he does.
Jack's gonna be great but he's only ever filling in at full back

Seagull58 · 2024-09-19T18:41:20+0100

Reddleman said:
Sorry I disagree, he never closed down the player with the ball, nor was he aware of runner behind him. He was in no man’s land

He held up the player with the ball but nobody tracked the runner. Not his error.

zefarelly · 2024-09-19T18:57:38+0100

tigertim68 said:
Every team we have played have targeted JH , and last nite wolves did as well , he is not quick enough to be a full back, so the sooner we play proper full backs with pace , the better our defence will bec

In his defence, he's done bloody well and not got dry humped.

I do agree though . . . . No one else post 2022 Gross could have done that

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