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[Football] Man City PL Charges



GT49er

GT49er

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Feb 1, 2009
48,497
Gloucester
Harry Wilson's tackle said:
Relegation to tier 4, with a 5 year ban from playing in the EPL (so they may enjoy a couple of futile years winning the championship and not being promoted) would be fun.
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Just the relegation to League 2 would be good. Although it cost Rangers money they couldn't afford, it wouldn't affect Citeh in the same way (they've got money to burn), Rangers fans - and Scottish football in general - had a lot of fun as Rangers worked their way back up through the divisions.
 










S

SAC

Well-known member
May 21, 2014
2,622
KZNSeagull said:
Do the EFL have to accept them if City are relegated?
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I read that that if City are (just) relegated after a points deduction then The Championship are contractually obliged to accept them. However, if City are kicked out of the PL at the end of the season, it is cup to The EFL if they accept them and in which division.
 




Bakero

Bakero

Languidly clinical
Oct 9, 2010
14,698
Almería
Hamilton said:
I know. But in Soccernomics by Simon Culver and some other bod the data kind of suggests that the coach isn’t that important.

I think ‘The Numbers Game’ might suggest something similar.
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I've read Soccernomics (and possibly the numbers game too) and it does indeed point out that the position in the table generally correlates with salaries.

City haven't always had the highest wage bill though with Man U and Chelsea surpassing them in some seasons. I imagine Real Madrid outspent Barcelona too.

That aside, it's evident that Guardiola is a top coach. You can have all the money in the world and not implement a coherent style. How many other managers have affected the game like he has? Mile Oak Colts u10s now play out from the back (probably); and that's down to Pep.

NB. Yes, I know he didn't invent possession football or positional play but his influence is undeniable.
 


Pavilionaire

Pavilionaire

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2003
31,089
Nobby Cybergoat said:
I think they will be clobbered. I'm calling 50 points. Enough to mean they might go down or might not.

The tricky situation will be the inevitable appeal. I think there will be a situation last year where nobody knows who is actually in the relegation scrap

I also think there will be ban on individuals being directors or involved in football in the PL and a record fine and a costs award.

When you look at the charges against them, they are pretty bad
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In a normal world, a 'back of a fag packet' look at what the points deduction will mean would look a bit like this:

0-8 - Possibly zero difference, another title in the bag
9-24 - No title, but probably enough for Champions League
25-30 - No Champions League but probably still in Europe.
31-60 - No Europe, but still in the Prem
61-70 - flirting with relegation
71+ Definitely relegated.

However, you could hit them with a 100-point deduction and even then they could still survive if other clubs are also hit with points deductions and /or have a nightmare season on the pitch too, i.e. Leicester, Everton, Forest.

Logic would dictate that only a 114 point deduction would guarantee relegation. I recall Saracens were docked 105 points in the Rugby Prem to mathematically guarantee they would go down, and that decision was taking 4 months before the end of the season.
 


hans kraay fan club

hans kraay fan club

The voice of reason.
Helpful Moderator
Mar 16, 2005
62,487
Chandlers Ford
Pavilionaire said:
In a normal world, a 'back of a fag packet' look at what the points deduction will mean would look a bit like this:

Logic would dictate that only a 114 point deduction would guarantee relegation. I recall Saracens were docked 105 points in the Rugby Prem to mathematically guarantee they would go down, and that decision was taking 4 months before the end of the season.
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Not quite. Points deductions aside, it isn't possible for the 18th placed team to finish on ZERO points. The lowest the 18th placed team could achieve, is FOUR points (ie the three bottom teams draw all games between each other, and all lose every other game). If City finished on four too, they'd stay up with a better GD, thus the lowest points deduction that would guarantee relegation, is 111 (ensuring the max points they could reach with 38 winds, is 3)..
 




Mellotron

Mellotron

I've asked for soup
Jul 2, 2008
32,291
Brighton
Not to be a broken record but I feel the most heinous charge is the failure to comply with requests for information/failure to co-operate. Absolutely no excuse for this and no way this should go without a heavy punishment on it's own.

My prediction - a hefty financial fine (hefty to most, not to them) and some flimsy 2 year Transfer embargo which they will find a way to skirt around anyways.
 




Pavilionaire

Pavilionaire

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2003
31,089
hans kraay fan club said:
Not quite. Points deductions aside, it isn't possible for the 18th placed team to finish on ZERO points. The lowest the 18th placed team could achieve, is FOUR points (ie the three bottom teams draw all games between each other, and all lose every other game). If City finished on four too, they'd stay up with a better GD, thus the lowest points deduction that would guarantee relegation, is 111 (ensuring the max points they could reach with 38 winds, is 3)..
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But as I mentioned, if 3 teams also get hit with a points deduction - say 5 points each - they could all end up on -1 and Citeh survive on 0.

There is also the place prize money to consider too. Even if Citeh got relegated then they'd get £4 million more for finishing 18th as opposed to 20th.
 




hans kraay fan club

hans kraay fan club

The voice of reason.
Helpful Moderator
Mar 16, 2005
62,487
Chandlers Ford
Pavilionaire said:
But as I mentioned, if 3 teams also get hit with a points deduction - say 5 points each - they could all end up on -1 and Citeh survive on 0.

There is also the place prize money to consider too. Even if Citeh got relegated then they'd get £4 million more for finishing 18th as opposed to 20th.
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Well, its clearly only possible to do these sums, on the basis of no other points deductions. You COULD deduct City 120 points, but what if they win every game, and three others team get 50 points deductions.. 🤷‍♂️

Anyway, if other teams do get legitimate points deductions (whether that be 5 points, or 10, or 30) they would equally deserve to feel the impact of those sanctions, for whatever their own offences were.
 




El Presidente

El Presidente

The ONLY Gay in Brighton
Helpful Moderator
Jul 5, 2003
39,911
Pattknull med Haksprut
Mellotron said:
Not to be a broken record but I feel the most heinous charge is the failure to comply with requests for information/failure to co-operate. Absolutely no excuse for this and no way this should go without a heavy punishment on it's own.

My prediction - a hefty financial fine (hefty to most, not to them) and some flimsy 2 year Transfer embargo which they will find a way to skirt around anyways.
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Would you assist someone requesting information if someone had hacked your emails though?
 




jcdenton08

jcdenton08

Offended Liver Sausage
NSC Patron
Oct 17, 2008
12,903
The easiest way to cheat this from the PL’s point of view (and I’ll say this, I absolutely believe they wish this went away and are only acting under duress):

- Give a big sounding penalty on the surface to appease those seeking recrimination. This will be in the form of a large fine, which Manchester City will not appeal and happily pay.

- Give a modest immediate points deduction in the 6-9 points region, not enough to harm their Champions League or even title credentials.

- Give an enormous point reduction (suspended for 3 years) which sounds amazing for the newspaper headlines, but will not ever be activated.


So, while I’m no football finance expert, this is my guess based on what the desired end-game for each party. The PL wanting to seem tough without actually hurting a prized asset, Man City needing that CL spot as a minimum, and the media getting their story of punishment.
 


Triggaaar

Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
52,107
Goldstone
BBassic said:
Slap on the wrist, further erosion of the idea that any of the regulatory bodies have any teeth and we'll all be watching them lift the trophy again come May.

Nailed on.
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Wanna bet?
 


Triggaaar

Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
52,107
Goldstone
jcdenton08 said:
- Give an enormous point reduction (suspended for 3 years) which sounds amazing for the newspaper headlines, but will not ever be activated.
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Please no.

Maybe we should make the charge for murder a really tough, suspended sentence.

We can all kill someone, but don't do it (and get caught) twice.
 










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