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[Politics] The 2024 US Election - Trump v Harris

Who will win the 2024 Presidential Election?

  • President Joe Biden - Democrat

    Votes: 1 0.3%

  • Donald Trump - Republican

    Votes: 113 37.3%

  • Vice President, Kamala Harris - Democrat

    Votes: 170 56.1%

  • Other Democratic candidate tbc

    Votes: 19 6.3%
  • Total voters
    303
  • This poll will close: .


Weststander

Weststander

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Aug 25, 2011
67,432
Withdean area
Couldn't Be Hyypia said:
How do people not see that this man is a clown (albeit a dangerous clown from a horror movie).
Click to expand...

Because:
1. They’re obsessed with lower and lower taxation.
2. No gun controls.
3. They fall hook, line and sinker for furtive Putin propaganda on all sorts eg why not spend your precious taxes on MAGA rather than supporting Ukrainians being murdered.
 








Zeberdi

Zeberdi

“Vorsprung durch Technik”
NSC Patron
Oct 20, 2022
6,018
Couldn't Be Hyypia said:
How do people not see that this man is a clown (albeit a dangerous clown from a horror movie).
Click to expand...
I think most people and governmental leaders outside the US do, as do about half the American electorate - Many Republicans do also and are pinching their noses.

The rest, Trump’s MAGA supporters, seem to be suffering from some kind of group psychosis that blinds them to everything about Trump apart from their belief that America will undergo some kind of collapse, democracy will come to an end and there will be a 3rd WW if Harris wins the election.

Incredibly ironic given Trump is the only Candidate that will worsen world security, is a direct threat to American democracy as evidenced by Project 25 and has constantly tried to undermine the electoral process - He’s the only President ever in US history that’s on record as inciting the storming of the Capitol building to prevent the peaceful transition of power.

Trump has spent 8 years trashing the press, demonising democrats, objectifying women, spouting racist insults and cosying up to dictators. All this while selling himself as some New World Order Superman that can outrun professional football players, predict the direction of hurricanes and is an expert on biomedicine and pharmacotherapy. No wonder his needy supporters believe. He’s their dark and twisty version of an Übermensch..
 
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StonehamPark

StonehamPark

#Brighton-Nil
Oct 30, 2010
10,133
BC, Canada
peterward said:
When someone as hawkish and right wing as VP Cheney is voting Dem, that really says something.

Click to expand...


To 'steelman' his position, Cheney has had major financial and political interests in USA being involved in war in the past.

He is publicly backing and voting Dem.
Keeping Dem's in the White House may have a significantly higher chance of keeping the USA heavily (financially) involved in war, as per the prior 4 years, thus benefitting Cheney. (My opinion)

As I said, that's my steelman argument - though I do personally believe that;
- Dems in the WH may = continued level of global conflict and therefore financial gain to be had by people such as Cheney.
- Republicans in the WH may = lesser (financial) involvement in global war.

My biggest personal concern or worry in relation to American politics is global (in)stability. And I want whoever is next to be on the Iron Throne, to help settle the world down for the sake of us all.
 
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Weststander

Weststander

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Aug 25, 2011
67,432
Withdean area
StonehamPark said:
To 'steelman' his position, Cheney has had major financial and political interests in USA being involved in war in the past.

He is publicly backing and voting Dem.
Keeping Dem's in the White House may have a significantly higher chance of keeping the USA heavily (financially) involved in war, as per the prior 4 years, thus benefitting Cheney. (My opinion)

As I said, that's my steelman argument - though I do personally believe that;
- Dems in the WH may = continued level of global conflict and therefore financial gain to be had by people such as Cheney.
- Republicans in the WH may = higher chance of lesser (financial) involvement in global war.

My biggest personal concern or worry in relation to American politics is global (in)stability. And I want whoever is next to be on the Iron Throne, to help settle the world down for the sake of us all.
Click to expand...

Expansionist by arms/poison/murder/rape/death pits/concentration camps, Putin and Xi, are desperate for a Trump win.

Trump, his looney followers and petro industry mates deny mankind is polluting and heating the planet.

The planet gets screwed by a Trump win.
 


Crawley Dingo

Crawley Dingo

Political thread tourist.
Mar 31, 2022
846
Zeberdi said:
Something that I have repeatedly said on this thread to CD and Lasvegan (and anyone else who wonders why anyone who’s not from the US would be remotely interested in the US election ) is the threat to global security a second Trump administration would bring especially vis a vis Ukraine:

Experts increasingly concerned that a Trump win could mean an escalation of the war in Eastern Europe

https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-...ws-blog-12541713?postid=8235825#liveblog-body

Even Republican ex-Vice-President Dick Cheney says ‘never again’

Click to expand...
"Experts"

Military Industrial Complex aka Halliburton aka Neo-con warmonger and deep state critter who's daughter was booted from her seat in Wyoming for the J6 riots attempted stitch up Dick Cheney.

"
And Phillips P O'Brien, professor of strategic studies at the University of St Andrews, and Edward Stringer, a retired RAF Air Marshal and senior fellow of UK thinktank Policy Exchange.............

"By the end of January 2025, the continent's most important partner, the United States, could be led by former President Donald Trump, who has said that he would encourage Russia to do 'whatever the hell it wanted' to European countries that did not do what he wanted: spend more on defence," they wrote in a piece for Foreign Policy magazine."

That is not what Trump said, he said when asked what would the US do if European countries don't pay their way he said I hope Russia invades them which is a Trumpian joke/middle finger.
 






StonehamPark

StonehamPark

#Brighton-Nil
Oct 30, 2010
10,133
BC, Canada
Weststander said:
Expansionist by arms/poison/murder/rape/death pits/concentration camps, Putin and Xi, are desperate for a Trump win.

Trump, his looney followers and petro industry mates deny mankind is polluting and heating the planet.

The planet gets screwed by a Trump win.
Click to expand...

There’s quite a lot in that post.

Keeping on track with Putin/Russian support of Trump, with Putin endorsing Kamala recently - do you believe that to be genuine, or untruthful?

And with Winnie the Pooh, I fundamentally disagree. Trump in power would again hugely financially screw China in terms of export/import taxes and tariffs.

I don’t think it’s genuine or smart to say ‘all bad leaders support Trump, grrrr’.
Geopolitics are far more complex and intricate than that.
 


The Clamp

The Clamp

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jan 11, 2016
25,524
West is BEST
Crawley Dingo said:
"Experts"

Military Industrial Complex aka Halliburton aka Neo-con warmonger and deep state critter who's daughter was booted from her seat in Wyoming for the J6 riots attempted stitch up Dick Cheney.

"
And Phillips P O'Brien, professor of strategic studies at the University of St Andrews, and Edward Stringer, a retired RAF Air Marshal and senior fellow of UK thinktank Policy Exchange.............

"By the end of January 2025, the continent's most important partner, the United States, could be led by former President Donald Trump, who has said that he would encourage Russia to do 'whatever the hell it wanted' to European countries that did not do what he wanted: spend more on defence," they wrote in a piece for Foreign Policy magazine."

That is not what Trump said, he said when asked what would the US do if European countries don't pay their way he said I hope Russia invades them which is a Trumpian joke/middle finger.
Click to expand...
He’s got you hook, line, and sinker.

Even if it is a “joke”, the horrifying results of Russia invading other countries is not a topic for humour.

I doubt Ukrainian civilians living under Russian control would dismiss Trumps’ rhetoric as a “middle finger” or a “joke”.

There’s nothing funny about sexual war crimes and torture.
 
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Weststander

Weststander

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Aug 25, 2011
67,432
Withdean area
StonehamPark said:
There’s quite a lot in that post.

Keeping on track with Putin/Russian support of Trump, with Putin endorsing Kamala recently - do you believe that to be genuine, or untruthful?

And with Winnie the Pooh, I fundamentally disagree. Trump in power would again hugely financially screw China in terms of export/import taxes and tariffs.

I don’t think it’s genuine or smart to say ‘all bad leaders support Trump, grrrr’.
Geopolitics are far more complex and intricate than that.
Click to expand...

Wouldn’t trust Putin one bit, plays games.

Xi’s greater China policy, happening in real time, would accelerate with Trump’s let’s not get involved policy. C4’s highly respected Matt Frei consistently claims Xi is simply waiting to wage the mother of all attacks/invasions on Taiwan, at the same time to crush navies in the open ocean in that part of the world.

China aren’t bothered about the US as much as they once were on trade. They have the West by the goolies on manufacturing (a blunder from noughties globalisation) and copying Soviet tactics have forged coercive alliances from lending to an array of developing nations who are now in their pocket.
 


StonehamPark

StonehamPark

#Brighton-Nil
Oct 30, 2010
10,133
BC, Canada
Sorry to break up your post into snippets, but there's a lot of really great and interesting points in there I want to cover!

Weststander said:
Wouldn’t trust Putin one bit, plays games.
Click to expand...
Totally fair - I personally believe Putin would prefer Kamala in the WH and continue do engage in his warfare in Ukraine as per the past 3.5 years.
That being said, we don't really know how (or if) either of them will change up Russia/Ukraine policy in the US.

Weststander said:
Xi’s greater China policy, happening in real time, would accelerate with Trump’s let’s not get involved policy.
Click to expand...
I would generally prefer the west to not get overly involved with China's local interests.

Weststander said:
C4’s highly respected Matt Frei consistently claims Xi is simply waiting to wage the mother of all attacks/invasions on Taiwan, at the same time to crush navies in the open ocean in that part of the world.
Click to expand...
Wouldn't the perfect time to have done that be over the past 3.5 years, whilst America is financially and (somewhat) militarily involved in Ukraine, and massively financially in trouble during the back-end of Covid?
Or at least somewhat tested more of Taiwan's borders, sovereignty and associated response?

Weststander said:
China aren’t bothered about the US as much as they once were on trade.
Click to expand...
I'll to agree to disagree on that.
In 2022, >30% of all Chinese exports went to the USA and Europe. Putting those numbers to risk wouldn't make sense at this time, imo.
 






Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
NSC Patron
Oct 8, 2003
54,585
Faversham
rogersix said:
how many maga wives are there in australia?
Click to expand...
1725740386014.png
 


Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
NSC Patron
Oct 8, 2003
54,585
Faversham
StonehamPark said:
Sorry to break up your post into snippets, but there's a lot of really great and interesting points in there I want to cover!


Totally fair - I personally believe Putin would prefer Kamala in the WH and continue do engage in his warfare in Ukraine as per the past 3.5 years.
That being said, we don't really know how (or if) either of them will change up Russia/Ukraine policy in the US.


I would generally prefer the west to not get overly involved with China's local interests.


Wouldn't the perfect time to have done that be over the past 3.5 years, whilst America is financially and (somewhat) militarily involved in Ukraine, and massively financially in trouble during the back-end of Covid?
Or at least somewhat tested more of Taiwan's borders, sovereignty and associated response?


I'll to agree to disagree on that.
In 2022, >30% of all Chinese exports went to the USA and Europe. Putting those numbers to risk wouldn't make sense at this time, imo.
Click to expand...
China won't invade Taiwan.

China is like the Ood. They are all on the same page. 2000 years of history. No need to show off or create a diversion to soft soap an electorate.

Putin and his gang are novice wankas by comparison.

Chinese peasants work hard for their community and family and nation.

Russian peasants get drunk while the tractors rust.
 


Deportivo Seagull

Deportivo Seagull

I should coco
Jul 22, 2003
5,299
Mid Sussex
Crawley Dingo said:
"Experts"

Military Industrial Complex aka Halliburton aka Neo-con warmonger and deep state critter who's daughter was booted from her seat in Wyoming for the J6 riots attempted stitch up Dick Cheney.

"
And Phillips P O'Brien, professor of strategic studies at the University of St Andrews, and Edward Stringer, a retired RAF Air Marshal and senior fellow of UK thinktank Policy Exchange.............

"By the end of January 2025, the continent's most important partner, the United States, could be led by former President Donald Trump, who has said that he would encourage Russia to do 'whatever the hell it wanted' to European countries that did not do what he wanted: spend more on defence," they wrote in a piece for Foreign Policy magazine."

That is not what Trump said, he said when asked what would the US do if European countries don't pay their way he said I hope Russia invades them which is a Trumpian joke/middle finger.
Click to expand...
That is very much what a Trump said.
It’s not a joke as Trump isn’t funny.
 


peterward

peterward

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Nov 11, 2009
11,958
StonehamPark said:
To 'steelman' his position, Cheney has had major financial and political interests in USA being involved in war in the past.

He is publicly backing and voting Dem.
Keeping Dem's in the White House may have a significantly higher chance of keeping the USA heavily (financially) involved in war, as per the prior 4 years, thus benefitting Cheney. (My opinion)

As I said, that's my steelman argument - though I do personally believe that;
- Dems in the WH may = continued level of global conflict and therefore financial gain to be had by people such as Cheney.
- Republicans in the WH may = lesser (financial) involvement in global war.

My biggest personal concern or worry in relation to American politics is global (in)stability. And I want whoever is next to be on the Iron Throne, to help settle the world down for the sake of us all.
Click to expand...
I dont disagree about the wider want of peace, but we are now well beyond the point of no return with Russia/Ukraine, Putin has gone fully rogue and either Putin wins, even by keeping what he has today and upends the global security architecture, becomes a permanent malign terroritst nation undermining the west and our democratic institutions/voting, or we go all in and give Ukraine everything it needs to make sure he loses and loses badly.

There is no third way that isnt pie in sky fantasy politics or some form of timid can kicking appeasement. It just delays getting to the other side and prolongs instablity. Its a zero sum game now imho, It will be the end of the rules based order, the end of red lines and a permanent pardigm shift to global instability, or we do all we can to ensure that Russia loses badly, Putin sees his end, and only then is there a chance to try and return to something resembling previous peace and stability.

The boiled frog approach has failed, and the instability gives Putin his licence of mass terror and disinformation.

Idiots like Trump are both starstruck appeasers and deluded enough to think if they pull up the drawbridge to the world and isolate, all will be well with us and the accelerating global chaos wont come to their shores, or that Xi/Putin will relent and offer a hand of friendship rather than seek to destroy US and all US interests.
 






StonehamPark

StonehamPark

#Brighton-Nil
Oct 30, 2010
10,133
BC, Canada
peterward said:
I dont disagree about the wider want of peace, but we are now well beyond the point of no return with Russia/Ukraine, Putin has gone fully rogue and either Putin wins, even by keeping what he has today and upends the global security architecture, becomes a permanent malign terroritst nation undermining the west and our democratic institutions/voting, or we go all in and give Ukraine everything it needs to make sure he loses and loses badly.
Click to expand...
This is a very dangerous line of thought imo, and I hope (and believe) that world leaders would not take this approach.

peterward said:
There is no third way that isnt pie in sky fantasy politics or some form of timid can kicking appeasement. It just delays getting to the other side and prolongs instablity. Its a zero sum game now imho, It will be the end of the rules based order, the end of red lines and a permanent pardigm shift to global instability, or we do all we can to ensure that Russia loses badly, Putin sees his end, and only then is there a chance to try and return to something resembling previous peace and stability.
Click to expand...
As above, forcing Putin in to an unwinnable corner, in my opinion, would spell doom for us.

There has to be another alternative eventually. However, prolonging the war is greatly in the US' financial interests.

peterward said:
Idiots like Trump are both starstruck appeasers and deluded enough to think if they pull up the drawbridge to the world and isolate, all will be well with us and the accelerating global chaos wont come to their shores, or that Xi/Putin will relent and offer a hand of friendship rather than seek to destroy US and all US interests.
Click to expand...
That's not exactly what happened during his first term (global isolation).
All that said, what do you believe Kamala would do differently, to the past 3.5 years?
 


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