[Politics] Small boats, smashing the criminal gangs and the UK job market

RandyWanger said:

How many on here do cash in hand jobs or are willing to pay someone cash? It'll be similar, where every they're from, there will be a community of them already over here and they'll be happy to work and pay using cash.
It'll be a selling point for a CBDC

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highflyer said:

I am sure the poorly regulated job market is one part of the 'pull'. Along with multiple other factors, including many linked to our colonial past, our long history of being an open, tolerant society and also using immigration to our economic advantage. I am certain there are also multiple 'push' factors, including increasing access to the funding and information (via socal media) that increases the incentives, makes the journeys easier to organize and easier to contemplate. People have ALWAYS moved around. It's what humans do. It's a big part of how human societies have developed. But the world is changing quickly and more and more people having the option, and desire, to move is going to be part of that. Every migrant has their own story. Some will be bad people. Most will not. Like any other group of people (see also 'football supporters'). What the vast majority of those using small boats (a small minority of actual immigrants) do have in common is that they are desperate. And they are desperate for many reasons, all of which have their own validity.

We are lucky to be living in one of the most dynamic, successful, multi-cultural societies on earth. But you'd be naive to think that doesn't also come with some significant challenges.

My view is that, with regard to the media-hyped problem of people arriving in small boats, we are being lied to by all parties. They are all too scared to tell the truth, so they look for stop-gap slogans and stunts that will get them votes. 'Smashing the gangs' is about as likely to work as the Rwanda 'deterrent'. If there is the demand, there will be supply. And demand will only grow. In that respect the french chap is probably correct. I believe that the only way to 'stop the boats' would be to use such extreme methods that, as a civilized society, we would, quite rightly, find it abhorrent.

My personal view is that there is simply no easy answer, beyond all the dull stuff. Setting up 'safe routes'. Investing in better systems to process claims quickly and fairly. Investing in better support for integration. Ensuring that public services, housing etc is strong enough to cope. Working with other governments more cooperatively and less competitively. Basically we can't stop people heading here. We need to manage it (and we can) But nobody wants to say that. Any more than anyone wants to hear it.

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Tom Hark Preston Park said:

Offer them training to work in the NHS?

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Covid: Refugee nurses are being fast-tracked into the NHS

Refugee nurses are being fast-tracked into the NHS as part of a pioneering scheme in Liverpool.

www.bbc.co.uk

Bozza said:

An interesting view from France on the BBC reflecting on yesterday's tragedy in the Channel, where it's felt that "smashing the criminal gangs" won't solve the problem of small boat crossings, which is due to the pull of the UK's poorly-regulated employment market...

"He did condemn the smugglers, but most of his comments focused on the lure of what he views as Britain’s loosely regulated job market, that acts like a magnet, drawing young Eritreans, determined Sudanese, Afghans, Syrians and Iraqis to this coastline, convinced that they if they can just make it across this last, short stretch of water - or even half way across - they’ll end up in a country where they can find work, even without the right paperwork.​

​

In doing so, he touched on a widely-held belief here in France, which is that however much effort is put into tackling the smuggling gangs it will never be enough. That this is a crisis fuelled by the demands of tens of thousands of determined migrants, rather than by the profit-seeking motives of a loose network of criminals."​

​

France sees Channel migrant deaths as a problem of Britain's making

Many in France deeply resent the way their own lives have been transformed by a crisis they see as British-made.

www.bbc.co.uk

​

It's not a perspective I've read before. Is it easier to get work in the UK, without proper credentials, than in other countries?

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Bozza said:

It's not a perspective I've read before. Is it easier to get work in the UK, without proper credentials, than in other countries?

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LamieRobertson said:

So person posts something you don’t agree with and he must be pissed and should try AA ….hmm right o

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Thunder Bolt said:

In the meantime, since July, with the dreadful Rwanda scheme cancelled, 300 civil servants have been freed up to actually start processing asylum claims. Hopefully, the lucrative scheme (for some hotel owners) backlog will go down rapidly and true asylum seekers can start work and contribute.

The result? 220 illegal immigrants have already been deported on one day.

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Herr Tubthumper said:

I read this in this week's Jay Raynor restaurant review

Royal China on London’s Baker Street, part of the well-known Chinese restaurant group of the same name, has lost its liquor licence and been fined £470,000 after 20 illegal workers were arrested there during inspection visits between 2018 and 2024. During the most recent raid in May, almost a third of the staff on duty at the time were found to be working there illegally.

A third of their current workforce were working illegally plus this has been an ongoing issue since 2018. I appreciate it is just one business but it suggests that there is not much will from certain employers to employ people legally...even when they have been repeatedly raided.

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Guinness Boy said:

Er no. Someone suggests locking a thread at 9.30 in the morning in case someone's drunk. Like I said, bizarre. And absolutely no relevance to the subject of the thread.

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Javeaseagull said:

The last I heard the housing costs for immigrants awaiting a decision amounted to 8 billion pounds a year. As always, follow the money if you want to find the culprits for this. Over 1,000 civil servants working on the ridiculous Rwanda Act should have been processing the applications of people wanting to stay is just one example of the last Governments priorities. I believe over 80% of applications are granted amounting to a colossal amount of wasted taxpayers money.

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HMRC urged to investigate asylum hotel firm over payments to apparent offshore company - Liberty Investigates

Home Office accommodation provider Clearsprings has paid £16m to a consultancy firm with links to its founder Graham King

libertyinvestigates.org.uk

highflyer said:

Follow the money indeed. Except sometimes...you can't:

HMRC urged to investigate asylum hotel firm over payments to apparent offshore company - Liberty Investigates

Home Office accommodation provider Clearsprings has paid £16m to a consultancy firm with links to its founder Graham King

libertyinvestigates.org.uk

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Mellor 3 Ward 4 said:

Yesterday was (yet another) awful day - these are human beings.

However, was Rwanda really such a bad idea?

According to those 'on the ground' in the camps of Northern France, the threat of being put on a plane was acting as a deterrent to getting on a boat.

The article is an interesting read - and certainly our underregulated labour market is a draw.

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Supreme Court rules Rwanda asylum policy unlawful

The UK's highest court says the plan leaves people at risk of being sent back to unsafe countries.

www.bbc.co.uk

Guinness Boy said:

Perhaps because no one else wants those jobs?

Don't think there are a lot of British kids looking at careers and going 'I want to deliver takeaways for Deliveroo' or 'I want to work as a Kitchen Porter in a Chinese Restaurant' or 'I want to pick fruit in East Anglia'.

Not to mention there's the ongoing irony that many Brits who are 'against the immigrants' also think having an Indian or Chinese at the weekend is part of our culture.

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highflyer said:

I am sure the poorly regulated job market is one part of the 'pull'. Along with multiple other factors, including many linked to our colonial past, our long history of being an open, tolerant society and also using immigration to our economic advantage. I am certain there are also multiple 'push' factors, including increasing access to the funding and information (via socal media) that increases the incentives, makes the journeys easier to organize and easier to contemplate. People have ALWAYS moved around. It's what humans do. It's a big part of how human societies have developed. But the world is changing quickly and more and more people having the option, and desire, to move is going to be part of that. Every migrant has their own story. Some will be bad people. Most will not. Like any other group of people (see also 'football supporters'). What the vast majority of those using small boats (a small minority of actual immigrants) do have in common is that they are desperate. And they are desperate for many reasons, all of which have their own validity.

We are lucky to be living in one of the most dynamic, successful, multi-cultural societies on earth. But you'd be naive to think that doesn't also come with some significant challenges.

My view is that, with regard to the media-hyped problem of people arriving in small boats, we are being lied to by all parties. They are all too scared to tell the truth, so they look for stop-gap slogans and stunts that will get them votes. 'Smashing the gangs' is about as likely to work as the Rwanda 'deterrent'. If there is the demand, there will be supply. And demand will only grow. In that respect the french chap is probably correct. I believe that the only way to 'stop the boats' would be to use such extreme methods that, as a civilized society, we would, quite rightly, find it abhorrent.

My personal view is that there is simply no easy answer, beyond all the dull stuff. Setting up 'safe routes'. Investing in better systems to process claims quickly and fairly. Investing in better support for integration. Ensuring that public services, housing etc is strong enough to cope. Working with other governments more cooperatively and less competitively. Basically we can't stop people heading here. We need to manage it (and we can) But nobody wants to say that. Any more than anyone wants to hear it.

Click to expand...

highflyer said:

I am sure the poorly regulated job market is one part of the 'pull'. Along with multiple other factors, including many linked to our colonial past, our long history of being an open, tolerant society and also using immigration to our economic advantage. I am certain there are also multiple 'push' factors, including increasing access to the funding and information (via socal media) that increases the incentives, makes the journeys easier to organize and easier to contemplate. People have ALWAYS moved around. It's what humans do. It's a big part of how human societies have developed. But the world is changing quickly and more and more people having the option, and desire, to move is going to be part of that. Every migrant has their own story. Some will be bad people. Most will not. Like any other group of people (see also 'football supporters'). What the vast majority of those using small boats (a small minority of actual immigrants) do have in common is that they are desperate. And they are desperate for many reasons, all of which have their own validity.

We are lucky to be living in one of the most dynamic, successful, multi-cultural societies on earth. But you'd be naive to think that doesn't also come with some significant challenges.

My view is that, with regard to the media-hyped problem of people arriving in small boats, we are being lied to by all parties. They are all too scared to tell the truth, so they look for stop-gap slogans and stunts that will get them votes. 'Smashing the gangs' is about as likely to work as the Rwanda 'deterrent'. If there is the demand, there will be supply. And demand will only grow. In that respect the french chap is probably correct. I believe that the only way to 'stop the boats' would be to use such extreme methods that, as a civilized society, we would, quite rightly, find it abhorrent.

My personal view is that there is simply no easy answer, beyond all the dull stuff. Setting up 'safe routes'. Investing in better systems to process claims quickly and fairly. Investing in better support for integration. Ensuring that public services, housing etc is strong enough to cope. Working with other governments more cooperatively and less competitively. Basically we can't stop people heading here. We need to manage it (and we can) But nobody wants to say that. Any more than anyone wants to hear it.

Click to expand...