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[Albion] You're the ref: Veltman v Rice

You're the ref: Veltman v Rice

  • No card to either player

    Votes: 99 17.4%
  • No card for Veltman; yellow card for Rice

    Votes: 255 44.8%
  • Yellow card for Veltman; nothing for Rice

    Votes: 13 2.3%
  • Yellow card for both players

    Votes: 118 20.7%
  • No card for Veltman; red card for Rice

    Votes: 36 6.3%
  • Red card for Veltman; nothing for Rice

    Votes: 3 0.5%
  • Red card for Veltman; yellow card for Rice

    Votes: 4 0.7%
  • Yellow card for Veltman; red card for Rice

    Votes: 36 6.3%
  • Red card for both players

    Votes: 5 0.9%

  • Total voters
    569








Seagull58

In the Algarve
Jan 31, 2012
8,031
Vilamoura, Portugal
I’ve come on here plenty to rip through a referee’s performance but Kavanagh had a great game yesterday. Got almost everything right, and was remarkably consistent in his decisions throughout the game, for both sides.

A really tough game to referee and to the dismay of the plastic surgery addict managing the Arsenal side will get top marks from the PGMOL for that performance.
I have to agree Kavanagh had a good game, including allowing several robust challenges and not falling for the pleading and playacting of the alleged victims, on both sides. There has been a marked change this season in that aspect of the game and its great to see.
 


Blues Guitarist

Well-known member
Oct 19, 2020
545
St Johann in Tirol
These incidents really flush out the social media posters who don't understand the laws of the game 😂
I have to agree Kavanagh had a good game, including allowing several robust challenges and not falling for the pleading and playacting of the alleged victims, on both sides. There has been a marked change this season in that aspect of the game and its great to see.
Whether or not you agree with allowing "robust" challenges, he was consistent, which is the most important thing.
 






jessiejames

Never late in a V8
Jan 20, 2009
2,749
Brighton, United Kingdom
Looking at the opinions of neutrals on social media, most of them think that it should not have been a red for Rice.

Perhaps those of us that think it was a 'definite red' have our blue & white tinted specs too firmly on.

If I was the ref and not an Albion fan? Honestly, I probably would have not carded either player and got on with the match. I think the fans would forget about it pretty quickly... especially as in some peoples eyes Veltman kicked out at Rice, which probably has some truth to it...

It's a complicated scenario that would probably need some kind of expert to break it down for the ACTUAL correct decision, but I think with refereeing, sometimes common sense can go a long away.
But it wasnt a red. He got a yellow card then the ref
 








Bakero

Languidly clinical
Oct 9, 2010
14,683
Almería
Looking at the opinions of neutrals on social media, most of them think that it should not have been a red for Rice.

Perhaps those of us that think it was a 'definite red' have our blue & white tinted specs too firmly on.

If I was the ref and not an Albion fan? Honestly, I probably would have not carded either player and got on with the match. I think the fans would forget about it pretty quickly... especially as in some peoples eyes Veltman kicked out at Rice, which probably has some truth to it...

It's a complicated scenario that would probably need some kind of expert to break it down for the ACTUAL correct decision, but I think with refereeing, sometimes common sense can go a long away.

It's not complicated. The laws clearly state that a player "must" be cautioned for delaying a free kick. No ambiguity. No ifs or buts.
 


Bakero

Languidly clinical
Oct 9, 2010
14,683
Almería
The issue is the lack of consistency. We’d have been furious if it was given the other way.

Do I think Veltman did anything wrong? No, not in the slightest.

Did Rice do something that deserved a yellow? Barely. If that’s a yellow, we may as well all pack up our bags now.

But it is a yellow. The laws very specifically state that it is.
 


PILTDOWN MAN

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Sep 15, 2004
19,284
Hurst Green
The issue is the lack of consistency. We’d have been furious if it was given the other way.

Do I think Veltman did anything wrong? No, not in the slightest.

Did Rice do something that deserved a yellow? Barely. If that’s a yellow, we may as well all pack up our bags now.
Start packing.
 




BadFish

Huge Member
Oct 19, 2003
17,883
But it is a yellow. The laws very specifically state that it is.
And the players and clubs have all been told that this would be a focus thus season.

To not give the yellow the ref needs to either ignore the fact that Rice kicked the ball away or use aome illusive 'common sense' to decide that this situation should ignore the rule. Quite why that would be I am not sure.
 


DavidinSouthampton

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jan 3, 2012
17,137
But it is a yellow. The laws very specifically state that it is.
Absolutely, and on seeing it again and again I’m sure he did it very deliberately
 


Bakero

Languidly clinical
Oct 9, 2010
14,683
Almería
And the players and clubs have all been told that this would be a focus thus season.

To not give the yellow the ref needs to either ignore the fact that Rice kicked the ball away or use aome illusive 'common sense' to decide that this situation should ignore the rule. Quite why that would be I am not sure.

This is very much what my militant Arsenal mate wants the ref to do. Ignore the laws and apply common sense to make a decision that favours his team.
 
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Berty23

Well-known member
Jun 26, 2012
3,552
I keep hearing arsenal fans who want letter of the law so Pedro booked. I do t understand where quick throw was coming from. Obviously letter of the law gang won’t say “arteta throws it back” because he is out of technical area so should be booked himself anyway so if he touches the ball then he certainly should be.

How was this going to be a quick throw? Why are media not calling out arteta?
 

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JBizzle

Well-known member
Apr 18, 2010
6,088
Seaford
This is very much what my militant Arsenal mate wants the ref to do. Ignore the laws and apply common sense to make a decision that favours his team.
I had this conversation with an Arsenal fan yesterday. You cannot have consistency AND common sense.

If you apply common sense, the laws will be applied inconsistently, and I'd you consistently follow the laws, you cannot apply common sense.
 




Bodian

Well-known member
May 3, 2012
13,391
Cumbria
I keep hearing arsenal fans who want letter of the law so Pedro booked. I do t understand where quick throw was coming from. Obviously letter of the law gang won’t say “arteta throws it back” because he is out of technical area so should be booked himself anyway so if he touches the ball then he certainly should be.

How was this going to be a quick throw? Why are media not calling out arteta?
Arteta is hardly ever IN his technical area!
 






the wanderbus

Well-known member
Dec 7, 2004
2,969
pogle's wood
I keep hearing arsenal fans who want letter of the law so Pedro booked. I do t understand where quick throw was coming from. Obviously letter of the law gang won’t say “arteta throws it back” because he is out of technical area so should be booked himself anyway so if he touches the ball then he certainly should be.

How was this going to be a quick throw? Why are media not calling out arteta?
Talking to a mate who is a ref and his explanation to why Pedro wasn’t booked …… No one gets booked for kicking the ball away they would be booked for delaying the restart. As there is the multiball system in the premier league the Arsenal player only needed to go to the nearest cone to get a ball ,which he would’ve had to do whether Pedro kicked it an inch or mile ,therefore he didn’t delay the restart.
 


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