sussex_guy2k2
Well-known member
- Jun 6, 2014
- 3,887
No it wasn’t. He kicked the ball away in what would’ve been a sign of dissent. It’s a different rule, but he’s far more guilty of it than Rice is of barely nudging a moving ball to the side.
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[Albion] You're the ref: Veltman v Rice
- Thread starter Bozza
- Start date
sussex_guy2k2
Well-known member
- Jun 6, 2014
- 3,887
He literally didn’t. And the ball wasn’t stationary anyway, so Veltman shouldn’t have been taking the free kick until it was. You can’t implement the rule of stopping a free kick when you’re not even implementing the rule on proper free kick procedure.
I was at a gig last night in north London, came out of the venue about midnight and heard a high pitched droning sound which surprised me, as flights are mainly restricted over London between 23:30-06:00 to restrict noise pollution.
Turns out the noise wasn’t an aircraft but Arteta still whining.
Turns out the noise wasn’t an aircraft but Arteta still whining.
Uh_huh_him
Well-known member
- Sep 28, 2011
- 11,621
Yes you can.
Rice is delaying a restart.
The whistle has gone - Veltman does not get the opportunity to restart because Rice has nudged the ball off the pitch.
Whether the ball was rolling or not is irrelevant,.
The reason it's irrelevant is that Veltman didn't restart the game.
It would only have been relevant if Veltman had been allowed to restart.
In which case he would have been told to retake the kick.
tedebear
Legal Alien
Not sure that entirely makes sense, you’re saying he had the intention to kick the ball at Rice, but it wasn’t premeditated? Isn’t intention premeditated in the moment?
No one will ever know except Veltman. What I saw is him trying to take a free kick quickly (whether the ball was at a stop or not he didn’t care) knowing that someone was in the way and he could potentially use that infringement. Which is what happened. As I said above its the inconsistency that is the issue here, given our kicking the ball away earlier in the match.
Yes. And did the Arsenal fans to my right, who started waving cheerio at us. Hilarious to watch it suddenly dawn on them that it was Rice that was off.Anyone else initially assume the red card was for Veltman?
Well he did kick it off the pitch didn’t he. It is also good to know that you think players are also now supposed to take over the decision making for whether a player can take a free kick or not as well as deciding when to stop the game because the ball is out of play. Anything else you think players should control rather than the ref?
The fact the ball was moving makes it even more stupid from rice. Veltman would have been called back to retake it. As it was he took the rules into his own hands and kicked the ball off the pitch. I have no idea why you are arguing he didn’t do that by the way.
Ball as rice looked at it and kicked it. Quite clearly on the pitch.
Followed by the ball quite clearly off the pitch after Rice had kicked it.
You can argue whether you think rice should have been sent off but arguing that he didn’t literally kick the ball off the pitch is trumpian levels of horseshit.
Attachments
The inconsistency argument stacks up if there had been a like for like incident to Pedro’s, and a yellow had been given.
But that wasn’t the case here. (unless you’re the arsenal manager).
The two incidents are different because there is an argument that Pedro was trying to keep the ball in rather than time wasting. And so there is room for the ref to give him the benefit of the doubt. Also, with the multiball system, the restart was not delayed.
You can’t make that case with Rice’s intervention. Once spotted by the ref, the only outcome is a yellow card.
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Blues Guitarist
Well-known member
He didn’t try to delay a free kick being taken, which is what the rules/laws say is worthy of a yellow card.
Worried Man Blues
Well-known member
Veltman was just making a point about |Rice not moving away, then Rice kicked the ball away and it all ended up perfectly, Arteta he he
Isn't the difference (on one viewing) Pedro was running with the ball and it was one movement, rather than stopping and kicking it
Did Pedro hear a whistle? No. There wasn’t one. Did. Pedro see the lino raise his flag to show the ball was out? No the lino was behind him. Fab called out the difference between a dynamic situation around a throw in and the dead ball situation after a ref has blown. It is a crazy comparison. Pedro was not already on a yellow either.
The other people people are ignoring about Rice is that letter of the law feigning injury is also a yellow card. He was pretending Veltman had hurt him to try and get him sent off. He soon jumped up when he realised he was the one in Trouble.
Worried Man Blues
Well-known member
Mince and Rice
- Mar 1, 2021
- 544
I momentarily thought that but quickly realized it couldn't be because no Brighton player had had a first yellow at that point.Anyone else initially assume the red card was for Veltman?
Isn’t unnecessarily delaying the game ‘just’ ungentlemanly conduct and therefore a booking?
I actually do think Pedro should have been booked and the ref made an error, but was do Arsenal supporters and Arteta want, the ref to make two errors, because he’s then being consistent?
That’s just silly
This is the key point! I have to say that I'm not a connoisseur of the rules of the game...like most people (I think) I rely on the fact that I've been watching footie for a long time and so obviously I must know it all! However, just to get my head around this particular set of events, I did actually read the relevant part of the rules. And it's pretty clear why Rice got a yellow, and JP didn't. I'm sure this has been pointed out elsewhere on the thread, but may have been missed by some....
Firstly, the bookable infringement by Rice was "Delaying the restart of play". There is no rule which states that you get a yellow card for kicking the ball away. However, there are examples of what might constitute "Delaying the restart of play".....which include kicking the ball away. In the JP incident, the ball was already off the field, and another ball was immediately available for an Arsenal player to take the throw in. There was no delay.
The crazy thing is, the incidents just illustrate that (a) Arteta has no idea about the rules; (b) Lineker, Hart and Murphy in the MotD studio (with probably about 100 years of experience of playing the game and commenting on it professionally) also have no idea of the rules. They just blithely criticise the ref for inconsistency, when the poor old ref is just applying the rules.
That's mine too. In a similar way Minteh got booked, presumably for expressing his thoughts to the referee . . .also dissent.
mejonaNO12 aka riskit
Well-known member
Both. Rice broke the rules on a technicality and veltman knew exactly what he was doing. Anyone believing poor innocent Joel was just wanting to take a standard free kick is doing so from behind the thickest of blue and white lenses