[Politics] The Labour Government

Is it PotG? said:

Not at all.

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Fair enough. I'll take your word for it and look forward to your defence of the comments @Simster and @Bold Seagull raised. Over to you.

Simster said:

And I will wager you that I would trust this government to make more sensible tax changes for the good of the population than the last lot.

And I don't believe for one minute that SKS and Reeves (who achieved a 2:1 at Oxford reading PPE!) aren't aware of the elasticity of CGT, however much you continue to snipe and moan about it.

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You say tomatoes, I say tomatoes.

Herr Tubthumper said:

Fair enough. I'll take your word for it and look forward to your defence of the comments @Simster and @Bold Seagull raised. Over to you.

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I just have.

Not only will the Government not raise the money it wants to, it will also impose huge costs on the wider economy. Landlords may be widely maligned, but the blunt truth is that Britain needs a large number of rented properties, given the very high levels of immigration, and needs lots of foreign students to keep our failing universities afloat. When they leave the market, it will drive astronomical rents even higher, and make the housing crisis even worse, as well as pushing up inflation.

Let's see where we are in 6 months time on this one.

Is it PotG? said:

You say tomatoes, I say tomatoes.

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Or more accurately, you post a load of crap, it gets picked apart, and you don't bother defending your position and instead choose to deflect and move on to your next inaccurate whinge.

Simster said:

This is ridiculous. He's been in power less than 2 months after 14 years of unmitigated disaster where the national debt tripled, they divided the country after the hardest form of Brexit was implemented - TERRIBLY - and Tory donors were allowed to waste billions of tax payers money.

If you look at yesterday, people are understandably concerned at the winter fuel allowance bungle and now eyebrows are being raised over this potential smoking outdoors ban. But on the other hand, we've seen policies on taking back national rail firmed up, VAT on private education is being implemented and IS popular with the vast majority and they are clearly trying to build bridges with the EU, our closest trading partner.

This idea that after two months Kier Starmer is somehow a proven disaster is for the birds. Oh and for particularly ignorant right wingers, and their chums in the right wing press. He might prove to be a disaster, but we're miles from that.

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Let's face it you can't judge the Tories fairly since COVID as there are no metrics to compare fairly against. The 14 years of failure on washes with the left wing.

The facts are Starmer isn't popular and got in by the back door because the Tories left it wide open with a sign saying welcome on it. Reform are still surging forward and will take a good few of labours voters if Starmer remains in place.

Simster said:

Or more accurately, you post a load of crap, it gets picked apart, and you don't bother defending your position and instead choose to deflect and move on to your next inaccurate whinge.

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We will never agree, so you resort to insult.

This policy will not raise the predicted amount, whether you like it or not.

beorhthelm said:

the question is why not simply ban smoking altogether? the puritans want to push it away, hide it, then dont have the courage to go for a full ban.

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The answer is that banning heroin, cocaine etc hasn't stopped idiots using it. It is a bit silly thinking that banning it will stop it. You are just giving another business stream to OCGs with the associated criminality and violence that goes with it.

Oh! And HMG would lose billions in tax and duty.

Right Brain Ronnie said:

Let's face it you can't judge the Tories fairly since COVID as there are no metrics to compare fairly against. The 14 years of failure on washes with the left wing.

The facts are Starmer isn't popular and got in by the back door because the Tories left it wide open with a sign saying welcome on it. Reform are still surging forward and will take a good few of labours voters if Starmer remains in place.

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You can easily judge the Tories and I do. Yes, COVID was a curve ball - but:

* In 2010 we had 65 foodbanks in this country. By 2013 there were 650. Now there are thousands, and are even needed by those in employment
* Under the Tories, billions were wasted on PPE, track and trace and "fast-tracking" so that Tory donors got to by-pass tendering processes. Then there was the failure to look after care homes and any sort of plan. COVID was unexpected but the Tories handled it about as badly as humanly possible, from a "leader" who didn't like doing detail.
* Brexit - a vote purely designed to resolve an internal party issue. When it was implemented, it was done as badly as humanly possible. And has damagingly divided the country.
* Populism culminated in the election of a load of thick MPs who then elected Liz Truss to spite anyone who queried Johnson. The result was her crashing the economy and unnecessarily adding hundreds of pounds to mortgage payments.

There are other things. But mmm yeah, "two tier Kier iS reeLy unPopULar", after two months in power - so let's cut him no slack at all.

As for Reform - unlike the Tories, they are a populist party of absolute cretins. Their popularity will bottom out as everybody who doesn't support them absolutely HATES them. And if they ever got close to power, they really would be an utter disaster.

Is it PotG? said:

We will never agree, so you resort to insult.

This policy will not raise the predicted amount, whether you like it or not.

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I wouldn't resort to insult if you had the stones to back up your tedious trolling with considered argument. There are plenty of people on here I don't agree with who I respect. You're not one of them for that reason.

Is it PotG? said:

I just have.

Not only will the Government not raise the money it wants to, it will also impose huge costs on the wider economy. Landlords may be widely maligned, but the blunt truth is that Britain needs a large number of rented properties, given the very high levels of immigration, and needs lots of foreign students to keep our failing universities afloat. When they leave the market, it will drive astronomical rents even higher, and make the housing crisis even worse, as well as pushing up inflation.

Let's see where we are in 6 months time on this one.

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I cannot be arsed to pick apart you posts because you'll just lay silent then pop up a day later with you next load of drivel...the NatWest share price being yet another example.

Maybe I'll simply make a note of this post and bounce it in 6 months time.

Is it PotG? said:

I just have.

Not only will the Government not raise the money it wants to, it will also impose huge costs on the wider economy. Landlords may be widely maligned, but the blunt truth is that Britain needs a large number of rented properties, given the very high levels of immigration, and needs lots of foreign students to keep our failing universities afloat. When they leave the market, it will drive astronomical rents even higher, and make the housing crisis even worse, as well as pushing up inflation.

Let's see where we are in 6 months time on this one.

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wont someone think of the landlords is an odd hill to fight on.

Herr Tubthumper said:

I cannot be arsed to pick apart you posts because you'll just lay silent then pop up a day later with you next load of drivel...the NatWest share price being yet another example.

Maybe I'll simply make a note of this post and bounce it in 6 months time.

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Please do, as I said the projected income will be less than boasted about and the numbers paying will be less.
Can't be much clearer really, can it?

Regarding your bugbear, Nat West shares.

After the major kicking, banks prove they have broad shoulders and recover.

Nowt new there, and good for everyone with an interest.

Right Brain Ronnie said:

But it's fact.

How do you feel about him now you seen him on the other side of the house.

How many out of 10?

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What’s a fact, a single poll in the Spectator?

Is it PotG? said:

Please do, as I said the projected income will be less than boasted about and the numbers paying will be less.
Can't be much clearer really, can it?

Regarding your bugbear, Nat West shares.

After the major kicking, banks prove they have broad shoulders and recover.

Nowt new there, and good for everyone with an interest.

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good Lord. One day it’s a disaster, the next banks are resilient enough to recover. Please decide what your position on the RR comments impacting the stock markets is. Is it a disaster or not? And by your I mean you.

Simster said:

COVID was a curve ball - but:

COVID was unexpected

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I don't like this argument. It is the job of a Government to protect its people. A good Government should be preparing for, and absolutely be expecting a pandemic / war / natural disaster etc to happen at any time. Because they have happened consistently throughout human history, and will continue to do so.

I'm not suggesting Labour would necessarily have done a better job with it, who knows, but saying "we weren't expecting it" is a failure of government- it is their job to expect it.

Is it PotG? said:

Please do, as I said the projected income will be less than boasted about and the numbers paying will be less.
Can't be much clearer really, can it?

Regarding your bugbear, Nat West shares.

After the major kicking, banks prove they have broad shoulders and recover.

Nowt new there, and good for everyone with an interest.

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So why did you parade it as a failing of the Government then?? Some posters pointed out at the time that ups and downs were nothing new - and you just made some other glib comment in response.

Commander said:

I don't like this argument. It is the job of a Government to protect its people. A good Government should be preparing for, and absolutely be expecting a pandemic / war / natural disaster etc to happen at any time. Because they have happened consistently throughout human history, and will continue to do so.

I'm not suggesting Labour would necessarily have done a better job with it, who knows, but saying "we weren't expecting it" is a failure of government- it is their job to expect it.

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Another Brexit Benefit

After the training operation — named "Exercise Cygnus" — in 2016, 22 recommendations were made to improve the U.K.'s response to a pandemic. Just eight of these were completed by June 2020, six months after the pandemic began — and the inquiry cites the competing demands of no-deal Brexit planning as a reason for this "inaction."

Other avenues of preparation for potential pandemics were also paused due to "Operation Yellowhammer," the codename for Whitehall's contingency planning for a no-deal Brexit.

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Is it PotG? said:

Bitter?

Not a chance. Just got a letter of great health news, and my hat is on the side of my head. Whistling a ditty and taking it all in.

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You cut a very strange version jolly person.

Commander said:

I don't like this argument. It is the job of a Government to protect its people. A good Government should be preparing for, and absolutely be expecting a pandemic / war / natural disaster etc to happen at any time. Because they have happened consistently throughout human history, and will continue to do so.

I'm not suggesting Labour would necessarily have done a better job with it, who knows, but saying "we weren't expecting it" is a failure of government- it is their job to expect it.

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Especially as we know now there was the trial run and report from a few years earlier which showed how ill-prepared the UK Government was for a "flu-like pandemic", and the Government simply decided to ignore it.

Simster said:

You can easily judge the Tories and I do. Yes, COVID was a curve ball - but:

* In 2010 we had 65 foodbanks in this country. By 2013 there were 650. Now there are thousands, and are even needed by those in employment
* Under the Tories, billions were wasted on PPE, track and trace and "fast-tracking" so that Tory donors got to by-pass tendering processes. Then there was the failure to look after care homes and any sort of plan. COVID was unexpected but the Tories handled it about as badly as humanly possible, from a "leader" who didn't like doing detail.
* Brexit - a vote purely designed to resolve an internal party issue. When it was implemented, it was done as badly as humanly possible. And has damagingly divided the country.
* Populism culminated in the election of a load of thick MPs who then elected Liz Truss to spite anyone who queried Johnson. The result was her crashing the economy and unnecessarily adding hundreds of pounds to mortgage payments.

There are other things. But mmm yeah, "two tier Kier iS reeLy unPopULar", after two months in power - so let's cut him no slack at all.

As for Reform - unlike the Tories, they are a populist party of absolute cretins. Their popularity will bottom out as everybody who doesn't support them absolutely HATES them. And if they ever got close to power, they really would be an utter disaster.

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1. Foodbanks and Poverty
- Economic Context: The increase in foodbanks since 2010, while concerning, must be viewed within the broader economic context. The UK, like many other countries, faced significant economic challenges following the global financial crisis of 2008. Austerity measures were implemented to reduce the national deficit, and while these policies were harsh, they were intended to restore fiscal stability. The rise in foodbank usage can be attributed to a combination of factors, including greater awareness and availability of foodbanks, changes in the benefits system, and an evolving economy where the nature of employment is changing.
Employment Successes: It’s also important to note that under Conservative leadership, the UK achieved record-high employment rates before the pandemic, suggesting that many policies were successful in creating jobs and reducing unemployment.

2. COVID-19 Response
Unprecedented Challenge:The COVID-19 pandemic was an unprecedented global crisis that caught all governments off-guard. The UK’s response, while not perfect, was on par with many other developed nations that also struggled with similar issues, such as PPE shortages and the rapid spread of the virus in care homes.
Rapid Innovation:The government’s efforts to secure PPE and develop a Track and Trace system were made under immense pressure. Mistakes were made, but this was a common story across the world as governments grappled with a novel virus. Additionally, the UK’s vaccine rollout was one of the fastest in the world, a success that likely saved thousands of lives.
Learning from Mistakes:It's also crucial to acknowledge that the government has since adapted and made changes to improve resilience in the face of future pandemics, with investments in domestic PPE production and new health security infrastructure.

3. Brexit
Democratic Mandate: Brexit was the result of a democratic referendum in which a majority voted to leave the European Union. The government had a mandate to deliver on that decision, and despite the complexity and division it caused, it was ultimately about respecting the will of the people.
Economic Opportunities: While the implementation of Brexit has been challenging, it has also opened up new opportunities for the UK to strike its own trade deals and reassert control over its laws and borders. Over time, these changes could lead to economic benefits and a stronger, more independent global position.
Long-Term Perspective: The full impacts of Brexit are still unfolding, and it is premature to judge its success or failure so soon after its implementation. It’s important to give these policies time to take effect and for the UK to adapt to its new role outside the EU.

4. Populism and Leadership
Populism vs. Representation:The rise of populism within the Conservative Party can be seen as a reflection of a broader global trend where voters feel disconnected from traditional political elites. The election of MPs who championed Brexit and the leadership of figures like Boris Johnson and Liz Truss represent a shift towards a more direct form of representation, where leaders are more attuned to the will of the electorate.
Liz Truss's Tenure:While Liz Truss’s tenure as Prime Minister was brief and her economic policies controversial, it’s worth noting that the Conservative Party acted quickly to rectify the situation, demonstrating a capacity for self-correction. The UK’s economy, while strained, remains resilient, and there has been swift action to stabilize markets and protect homeowners.
5. Labour and Reform UK
Labour's Challenges:Criticisms of Keir Starmer’s Labour Party as being out of touch with public sentiment are not unfounded. Labour has struggled to present a clear and compelling alternative to the Conservatives, and internal divisions have plagued the party for years. This lack of coherence may explain why some voters are skeptical of giving Labour the benefit of the doubt.
Reform As for Reform , it reflects a portion of the electorate that feels their concerns are not being addressed by the major parties. Dismissing them as “cretins” overlooks the genuine frustrations that many people feel. Instead of deriding these voters, it’s important to engage with their concerns and offer constructive solutions.

In conclusion, while the original critique of the Conservative Party highlights valid concerns, it’s important to also consider the complexities of governance, the challenges posed by unprecedented events like COVID-19, and the ongoing impacts of major decisions like Brexit. The Tories have faced significant challenges, but they have also made efforts to adapt and respond to the evolving needs of the country.

And now Loose canon Angie, been mouthing off boasting of her preferential treatment in the NHS, because the doctor was in agreement with her stance on Gaza.

Two tiers everywhere, is this really the look labour are looking for? 🫣