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[Albion] Was forcing Sanchez out the worst decision our club has made in years?



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Oh_aye

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2022
1,928
Han Solo said:
Yup, you managed to be proactive and it was - as I've said - delightful even on the TV screen. But normally you guys describe your fan culture as "reactive", so clearly that was an exception from the normal?

That they're no better or worse: it isn't my real view, it is the real view though.

As for the European teams visiting, at least Ajax and AEK (dunno exact about Marseille) doesn't even pay a third of the wages Brighton does, yet the AEK fans helped their team to a win against a billionaire bankrolled Premier League club. That's the power of fans.
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So when we win its money - they win its fans?

Who was responsible for us repeatedly beating the top 4 that season?

My point was the snippy tone about the Chelsea game because it happened to be Potter. Whatever your fan culture no one really likes it being derided.

Reactive or otherwise fan involvement 'is what it is'. The idea that tifo culture drives teams on and other fan responses doesn't just doesn't make sense. Otherwise every Greek team would never lose and Arsenal would never win. And the whole point of pointing out the European games we saw last season was not to make comparisons about them or Brighton, but thatthat we got to see what we secretly already knew. Thay teams, espite noisy fans, can be directly completely un-influenced by that noise when it just becomes normal. It genuinely does just become monotonous. Like a car alarm going off. Loud, but not longer serving its function. It tends to feel more impressive when the team turn up (like Roma!l

I also like the idea that we were overlords against the European minnows of Ajax and Marseilles.
 






H

Han Solo

Well-known member
May 25, 2024
1,933
Oh_aye said:
So when we win its money - they win its fans?

Who was responsible for us repeatedly beating the top 4 that season?

My point was the snippy tone about the Chelsea game because it happened to be Potter. Whatever your fan culture no one really likes it being derided.

Reactive or otherwise fan involvement 'is what it is'. The idea that tifo culture drives teams on and other fan responses doesn't just doesn't make sense. Otherwise every Greek team would never lose and Arsenal would never win. And the whole point of pointing out the European games we saw last season was not to make comparisons about them or Brighton, but thatthat we got to see what we secretly already knew. Thay teams, espite noisy fans, can be directly completely un-influenced by that noise when it just becomes normal. It genuinely does just become monotonous. Like a car alarm going off. Loud, but not longer serving its function. It tends to feel more impressive when the team turn up (like Roma!l

I also like the idea that we were overlords against the European minnows of Ajax and Marseilles.
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The reason why going to Greece, Turkey etc. is difficult isn't because mr Papadopolos magically turns into Zidane at home, but because 50k wild lunatics are making noise and supporting their team throughout the game. In your imagination you can have 50k wild and ecstastic people cheering you on and you'd be "uninfluenced", in reality few if any humans work like that. Its never "normal". Ask someone who has played there (or in Ajax or Feyenoord or Celtic or AIK or Hammarby) and they'll tell you what kind of energy it gives.

Fan power isn't everything. Obviously the quality of the players are going to be the main thing. But it has effect - both in the tifo culture and in the reaction culture.

In the (almost) spectator-less 20/21 season, 38% ended in a home win, 40% in away win. That was the only time in PL (and I think English top flight) history that away teams had higher win rate than home teams. As a comparison, last season 46% ended in a home win and 32% in away wins - a massive difference from 20/21. Similar numbers are seen in other European leagues. Clearly the impact of fans is MASSIVE, in England and elsewhere.
 


I

Ike and Tina Burner

Well-known member
Mar 22, 2019
576
Oh_aye said:
And, it was the same quiet Amex super fans last season who watched a number of tifo led fan groups at their stadium bang out incessant loud drum beats and nuremberg rally style choreographed chants which their own team barely even registered due to its monotony, as they were comprehensively outplayed.
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Bit of a flawed argument. They can have a positive and meanigful impact on their teams perfomance whilst still losing. One of the best Amex atmospheres ever was the 0-1 loss to Burnley. But the fans that day made it more competitive than it should have been with constant noise. You can say it's the same thing when European teams compete with EPL teams that have 10x their transfer budget. They may still be defeated but it's closer because of the fans.

And actually when you go through each home game your view doesn't really stand up. AEK Athens beat us despite having a team of nobodies. You can't say their fans didn't have an impact on the team, because they were bloody fantastic. Marseille matched us throughout and we were a bit jammy to beat them at the end. Ajax fans were pretty crap and their team rolled over. Roma effectively won their game by holding us to a low scoring win.
 


I

Ike and Tina Burner

Well-known member
Mar 22, 2019
576
Oh_aye said:
Reactive or otherwise fan involvement 'is what it is'. The idea that tifo culture drives teams on and other fan responses doesn't just doesn't make sense. Otherwise every Greek team would never lose and Arsenal would never win.
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Fans increase a team's ability to win, they don't guarantee it. Nobody thinks that.
Oh_aye said:
It genuinely does just become monotonous. Like a car alarm going off. Loud, but not longer serving its function. It tends to feel more impressive when the team turn up (like Roma!l
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I'm guessing it all sounds monotonous because you don't speak the languages (maybe you do?). Obviously it's just going to be noise after a point but it's probably different to the players and people who understand it's meaning.
Oh_aye said:
I also like the idea that we were overlords against the European minnows of Ajax and Marseille.
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We financially are. Their fans complain about it all the time
 




Guinness Boy

Guinness Boy

Tofu eating wokerati
Helpful Moderator
NSC Patron
Jul 23, 2003
36,572
Up and Coming Sunny Portslade
The problem with ultra culture is that it leads to some twat in black mugging a 50 something, female supporters liaison officer for a drum. :nono:

 


H

Han Solo

Well-known member
May 25, 2024
1,933
Guinness Boy said:
The problem with ultra culture is that it leads to some twat in black mugging a 50 something, female supporters liaison officer for a drum. :nono:

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Problem with non-ultras cultures is that you can't have a bottle with a lid because its seen as a bit too rowdy and aggressive.
 


Publius Ovidius

Publius Ovidius

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
46,681
at home
Getting back on track…I thought Sanchez actually played ok yesterday. His defence is poor and Cucarella is a twat of the first order.

man cheaters are just a cut above everyone else because they cheated the system that is all.
 




kevo

kevo

Well-known member
Mar 8, 2008
9,535
Publius Ovidius said:
Getting back on track…I thought Sanchez actually played ok yesterday. His defence is poor and Cucarella is a twat of the first order.

man cheaters are just a cut above everyone else because they cheated the system that is all.
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One superb save, for sure.
 


Beanstalk

Beanstalk

Well-known member
Apr 5, 2017
2,929
London
Han Solo said:
The reason why going to Greece, Turkey etc. is difficult isn't because mr Papadopolos magically turns into Zidane at home, but because 50k wild lunatics are making noise and supporting their team throughout the game. In your imagination you can have 50k wild and ecstastic people cheering you on and you'd be "uninfluenced", in reality few if any humans work like that. Its never "normal". Ask someone who has played there (or in Ajax or Feyenoord or Celtic or AIK or Hammarby) and they'll tell you what kind of energy it gives.
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The funny thing about this is that we literally went to Marseille last season where there 60,000 fans were so loud I couldn't hear the bloke next to me and their team crumbled in the second half under the slightest bit of pressure.

For what it is worth, I loved every moment, home and away, of our European tour last year, especially some of the intense, unique atmospheres we experienced. Do I think it changed anything on the pitch? No, not at all actually. Pre-match at Ajax felt like a massive occasion and we destroyed them. AEK fans were just as loud at home as they were away (actually for all their noise in the Amex game, we matched them) and they played far better at ours than theirs. As I said above, Marseille, some of the fiercest and loudest fans you'll ever experience, and we matched and beat them twice on the pitch.

The history and occasion itself is far more likely to overawe a player in my opinion. That playing at the Stadio Olimpico (in our case) or Anfield (in Barcelona's case) in a European knockout game under the lights will cause far more nerves to a visiting player than some blokes in black hoodies clapping in unison.
 


Flounce

Flounce

Well-known member
Nov 15, 2006
3,457
Han Solo said:
Problem with non-ultras cultures is that you can't have a bottle with a lid because its seen as a bit too rowdy and aggressive.
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Until you can actually attend an Albion game you really have no idea what the atmosphere is actually like. Matches on tv seldom capture the in ground atmosphere imo.

Just read post match threads where tv viewers say ”shit atmosphere” and fans who were there say “bollocks it was” :smile:
 




H

Han Solo

Well-known member
May 25, 2024
1,933
Flounce said:
Until you can actually attend an Albion game you really have no idea what the atmosphere is actually like. Matches on tv seldom capture the in ground atmosphere imo.

Just read post match threads where tv viewers say ”shit atmosphere” and fans who were there say “bollocks it was” :smile:
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They don't, but I'm rather done with this debate. I understand how incredibly sensitive the subject of atmosphere in the Premier League is.
 










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