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[News] Canadian wildfires



Goldstone Guy

Goldstone Guy

Well-known member
Nov 18, 2006
335
Hove
jcdenton08 said:
Fantastic idea. Moving forward, how do we replace the 80% of energy needs that fossil fuels provide, in a timely and cost realistic way?
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Ok. Well we could start by building a lot of onshore wind turbines which is the cheapest form of electricity generation available according to all the sources I've seen. Here's an example which says the cost in 2022 (and remember renewables are getting better and cheaper all the time) was 52% lower than the cheapest fossil fuel generation: https://www.irena.org/Publications/...weighted,cheapest fossil fuel-fired solutions.

You might (with some justification) say that that source is from the International Renewable Energy Agency and of course they're going to publish data supporting renewable energy. However whenever I look, no fossil fuel agencies/companies seem to publish any information on the cost of renewables vs fossil fuels. Now I wonder why that is? How many wind turbines could we build/erect in the next 5-10 years? I don't know, quite a lot if we really tried. The cost of solar is dropping rapidly each year and is now about level with fossil fuels as far as I can see. It should be going up over any available space (public buildings, car parks etc). Of course all the fossil fuel supporters will say yes but what do we do when there's no wind? Well since the energy is cheaper to produce in the first place we use the saved money to invest in energy storage.

Another thing that can be easily done is to reduce the amount of meat and dairy we consume and fly less. Perhaps meat 1-2 times per week and one holiday abroad per year would be a start. Probably most people won't be prepared to do that, but then hearing them say how sad it is that Canada/Australia/wherever are having big forest fires doesn't really wash with me.
 




D

dsr-burnley

Well-known member
Aug 15, 2014
2,406
raymondo said:
Yes agreed.
As you say, wild fires have happened naturally on many continents for a very long time. Science suggests that their frequency and ferocity will increase with global warming, methane release etc (I know you know).
My brother lives in West Australia and they seem to use controlled burning well to prevent the worst excesses - then again their area of natural forest is tiny compared to Canada's.
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I'm not really sure how the frequency AND ferocity can both increase. The ferocity will surely only increase if there is more material to burn, but more frequent fires would mean there is less material to burn because it hasn't had time to grow.

At least part of the problem is that as we get better at stopping the smaller fires, then when a fire comes along that is too big for us to stop, the natural benefit of the previous smaller fires has gone. That's one reason why fires will become more intense, because they have more material to burn and fewer natural firebreaks.
 


Quebec Seagull

Quebec Seagull

Vive le football... LIBRE!
Oct 19, 2022
580
Gatineau, Québec, CANADA
dazzer6666 said:
Spent over 3 weeks in Ontario and BC last year, absolutely love BC and Vancouver Island in particular. So sad to see this but after the last years would have thought they might have done more to try to prevent/limit this 🙁
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As jc mentioned, very few forest fires here in Canada are started by people -- it's nearly always lightning strikes. But climate warming has made trees drier than they should be, and we have SO much more woodland than anywhere else in the world except Russia. Even with a population of 40 million and enough wealth to buy all the planes and equipment needed to fight these tragedies, there's just too much area to cover in the short time span it takes wildfires to spread like an epidemic.

BTW, for those angry at Trudeau fils, the GQP-light Tories would be doing less than nothing. A bit of strategic voting to increase the number of NPD seats in the next House so that a true centre-left coalition government can be formed wirh the weakened Liberals would go a long way to pushing and implementing more forceful, and enforceable, climate strategies in this country.

.
 
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W

Wardy's twin

Well-known member
Oct 21, 2014
8,703
jcdenton08 said:
It absolutely would. I think my point was more that I’d rather not score political points over what is a tragic situation for many people about climate change - a cause I am fully behind and have taken actual demonstrable change about.

Canadian wildfires have been a thing since recorded settlement, and even further back in First Nations peoples writings. Millions of acres have burnt since records began in 1825 - to solely blame climate change is not only misleading, it’s downright incorrect.

That said, it is playing a part according to most scientists.

The issue was helpfully summarised by your bullet points, namely that simply replacing energy usage with green alternatives is simply not feasible in our lifetimes. Hard sacrifices would have to be made, and this is something that many people - even hardcore green energy campaigners - often fail to grasp.

Replacing like-for-like the 80% of energy produced by fossil fuels is not going to be possible in our lifetimes. Big sacrifices would have to be made, with a massive knock on to the worldwide economic stability through likely billions of job losses.

It would be a hard reset for humanity. No cars, no mass production - essentially a new dark age. Humanity will die out before that happened.
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When I was over there 7 years ago the tour guide said warmer winters meant that a certain beetle survived in much greater numbers and they attack the trees and so there is a lot of dead wood in the forests which has increased the risk of fires. My daughter is in Kelowna at present...
 




G

GingerBeerMan

3-0
Dec 29, 2011
8,112
Is there any evidence the current wildfire situation is caused by climate change? Alberta is one of the sunniest and driest provinces in Canada, the weather seen this year isn't extraordinary. It seems the wildfire preparation is lacking, possibly due to lack of funding? Certainly the UCP have cut funds for wildfire prevention, although it's Parks Canada (federally funded) who would be responsible for Jasper NP.

Things such as back burning and fire breaks can prove effective, have they had the manpower to carry this out?

Bear in mind there were also fires burning this year which started last year (crazy!) and Kelowna and Waterton have both had fire damage in recent years.

I'm not saying I know all the facts, but I think it's not as clear cut as 'climate change' and transitioning away from fossil fuels.
 






StonehamPark

StonehamPark

#Brighton-Nil
Oct 30, 2010
10,133
BC, Canada
GingerBeerMan said:
Is there any evidence the current wildfire situation is caused by climate change? Alberta is one of the sunniest and driest provinces in Canada, the weather seen this year isn't extraordinary. It seems the wildfire preparation is lacking, possibly due to lack of funding? Certainly the UCP have cut funds for wildfire prevention, although it's Parks Canada (federally funded) who would be responsible for Jasper NP.

Things such as back burning and fire breaks can prove effective, have they had the manpower to carry this out?

Bear in mind there were also fires burning this year which started last year (crazy!) and Kelowna and Waterton have both had fire damage in recent years.

I'm not saying I know all the facts, but I think it's not as clear cut as 'climate change' and transitioning away from fossil fuels.
Click to expand...

There’s some merit to that, for sure.
I’m in the Interior, BC and we’ve been through constant drought for 3 years now, with fires burning literally 365 days a year, even under the snow throughout the winter - genuinely.

Many of the fires have been human caused, or by lightning strikes. However (in my opinion), climate change has affected Canada, and the heat, lack of rain, drought and bone-dry fuel has exacerbated the intensity of the fires.

That being said, we would certainly still have fires here without climate change - they’ve had fires here for many centuries, dealt with my the First Nations.
 








Goldstone Guy

Goldstone Guy

Well-known member
Nov 18, 2006
335
Hove
jcdenton08 said:
Fantastic idea. Moving forward, how do we replace the 80% of energy needs that fossil fuels provide, in a timely and cost realistic way?
Click to expand...

I’m sorry, I’m really trying not to pick a fight with you, but am failing so apologise in advance. You’ve given me a sarcastic “fantastic idea” response to my post about stopping burning fossil fuels, and then suggested moving forward in the discussion. I’ve done that, with an evidence-based post showing that renewable energy can be significantly cheaper than fossil fuels. Your response to this has been …….. absolutely nothing whatsoever.

Why don’t you practise what you preach and move the discussion forward with an evidence-based response (no opinionated evidence-free bollocks thanks) to back up your assertion that renewables are too expensive to replace fossil fuels? Alternatively you could just ignore my post, pretend it’s not there, and maybe that means none of it’s true. That way, we can all celebrate the next time a JSO protester is jailed, and all express our sincere sadness the next time there’s a climate change-related natural disaster. Shouldn’t be a long wait for either I suspect.

You’ll probably read this and think I’m a sanctimonious prat and you may well be right. However my character flaws are not relevant in this discussion. The only things that matter are the facts.
 


Goldstone Guy

Goldstone Guy

Well-known member
Nov 18, 2006
335
Hove
jcdenton08 said:
Fantastic idea. Moving forward, how do we replace the 80% of energy needs that fossil fuels provide, in a timely and cost realistic way?
Click to expand...
And sorry, one last criticism then I’ll leave you alone. Your “thoughts and prayers” comment in your original post sounds uncannily like what an american NRA-supporting gun owner would say after a high school shooting. I mean, that’s the actual expression they always come out with isn’t it?
 




jcdenton08

jcdenton08

Offended Liver Sausage
NSC Patron
Oct 17, 2008
12,864
Goldstone Guy said:
And sorry, one last criticism then I’ll leave you alone. Your “thoughts and prayers” comment in your original post sounds uncannily like what an american NRA-supporting gun owner would say after a high school shooting. I mean, that’s the actual expression they always come out with isn’t it?
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This is libel and I suggest you retract it immediately.
 


Zeberdi

Zeberdi

“Vorsprung durch Technik”
NSC Patron
Oct 20, 2022
6,018
jcdenton08 said:
This is libel and I suggest you retract it immediately.
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How was it ‘libel’?

To say something ‘sounds like’ something, is just stating an opinion (albeit a silly one) not making a false statement as such.

You can’t libel a fictitious character/username on the internet either.
 




jcdenton08

jcdenton08

Offended Liver Sausage
NSC Patron
Oct 17, 2008
12,864
Zeberdi said:
How was it ‘libel’?

To say something ‘sounds like’ something, is just stating an opinion (albeit a silly one) not making a false statement as such.

You can’t libel a fictitious character/username on the internet either.
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Oh in that case, he sounds like a child rapist.
 




LamieRobertson

LamieRobertson

Not awoke
Feb 3, 2008
47,844
SHOREHAM BY SEA
Goldstone Guy said:
And sorry, one last criticism then I’ll leave you alone. Your “thoughts and prayers” comment in your original post sounds uncannily like what an american NRA-supporting gun owner would say after a high school shooting. I mean, that’s the actual expression they always come out with isn’t it?
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Oh how kind….and patronising at the same time 🤦‍♂️
 
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StonehamPark

StonehamPark

#Brighton-Nil
Oct 30, 2010
10,133
BC, Canada
Let’s everyone now shut the f*** up and get back on topic eh.

The wildfires are proper shit, and California is going through another really hard spell right now too. And we’ve got all of August to get through yet.

A couple of my photos/videos from my place in August last year.

IMG_1615.png
 

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