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[Politics] The Labour Government



B

borat

Well-known member
Jul 16, 2003
588
[
Zeberdi said:
It has it’s own thread - that’s all - why are a few posters trying to make this one all about Gaza?

And it is hard to ‘discuss’ Gaza with those whose starting point is that anyone who has expressed support for the Labour Party/Starmer is supporting and enabling genocide. Not really a basis for balanced discussion is it?
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The other thread covers more of the day to day events happening in the "war"

Labour has close ties to Israel both in the form of MPs and donors so it's only fair its discussed in a Labour forum. It might be convenient for some staunch Labour supporters to obscure that but think it's fair enough to hold the party in charge to account.

Will leave it there rather than derail a thread by discussing derailing!
 




Zeberdi

Zeberdi

“Vorsprung durch Technik”
NSC Patron
Oct 20, 2022
6,018
borat said:
[

The other thread covers more of the day to day events happening in the "war"

Labour has close ties to Israel both in the form of MPs and donors so it's only fair its discussed in a Labour forum. It might be convenient for some staunch Labour supporters to obscure that but think it's fair enough to hold the party in charge to account.

Will leave it there rather than derail a thread by discussing derailing!
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No it doesn’t and for you to say that is a poorly veiled attempt to justify pushing your agenda under the noses of those who have already decided to disengage from the Israel/Gaza thread so you can broaden your audience..

No one is obscuring anything but this vitriolic tirade against Labour over Gaza has been going on for 5 pages of this thread ffs.

Personally, I don’t want to have protest views about Gaza turning up on every frickin thread on NSC. What upsets me more than that, is that by taking such a polarising and entrenched position as those posting are doing, it is completely counter to furthering understanding and engaging wider support for the Palestinian people.
 
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A1X

A1X

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Sep 1, 2017
19,930
Deepest, darkest Sussex
essbee1 said:
Is Starmer just a bad luck person? England lose the euros; Biden stands down a week or so after meeting him.
I like Keir, but is he one of those people cursed with bad luck?
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That’s very much not the vibe from the election campaign TBH
 






chickens

chickens

Have you considered masterly inactivity?
NSC Patron
Oct 12, 2022
2,498
Zeberdi said:
No it doesn’t and for you to say that is a poorly veiled attempt to justify pushing your agenda under the noses of those who have already decided to disengage from the Israel/Gaza thread so you can broaden your audience..

No one is obscuring anything but this vitriolic tirade against Labour over Gaza has been going on for 5 pages of this thread ffs.

Personally, I don’t want to have protest views about Gaza turning up on every frickin thread on NSC. What upsets me more than that, is that by taking such a polarising and entrenched position as those posting are doing, it is completely counter to furthering understanding and engaging wider support for the Palestinian people.
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The individual you are responding to is on my ignore list. I try to mute individuals only when absolutely necessary, most posters make good points sometimes, but you can absolutely get some single issue bores and disingenuous trolls who add nothing meaningful to the discourse. You just have to cut them out of the conversation.

I long ago decided that the chap you’re (almost certainly) wasting your breath on was among their number. Just leave him screaming into the void.
 


WATFORD zero

WATFORD zero

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 10, 2003
27,320
Weststander said:
This was all predicted by several nsc’ers many months ago.

Corbyn fanboys will try to hijack Labour government good news and general UK politics discussion threads. It’s called p1ssing on the parade, from envy. For the next 5 years.

Perhaps the moderators might look at this at some stage. The same tiny number of posters attempting to derail Labour threads to Gaza at every turn.

There’s an incredible amount of tangible domestic and our relationship with the EU wrongs to right.
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Most recently from the left, I agree, but this thread was started as a pile on from the right and most early posts were from there.

It will continue swinging between posters who ironically have far more in common than they'd like to admit.

5 years of pissing on the parade and desperation from both sides. Lovely :rolleyes:
 


armchairclubber

armchairclubber

Well-known member
Aug 8, 2010
1,521
Bexhill
Weststander said:
This was all predicted by several nsc’ers many months ago.

Corbyn fanboys will try to hijack Labour government good news and general UK politics discussion threads. It’s called p1ssing on the parade, from envy. For the next 5 years.

Perhaps the moderators might look at this at some stage. The same tiny number of posters attempting to derail Labour threads to Gaza at every turn.

There’s an incredible amount of tangible domestic and our relationship with the EU wrongs to right.
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Do you have links to those predictions?

I'd be interested to see if those nsc'ers making those predictions were the same ones trying to suppress the Gaza issue several months ago.

There was a campaign within Labour to sanction Israel and end Arms Sales (or even licences for those arms being used offensively in Gaza) several months ago and aiming to end the UKs complicitness in the atrocities taking place against Palestinians in Gaza.

There still is now, even after a new Labour Government has been elected and even after the International Court of Justice ruling last week reaffirming International sanctions to be imposed against Israel.

Starmers UK Government is effectively not abiding by and breaking the ICJ ruling and International Law. (No need for you to deflect from this by mentioning Corbyn)

Furthermore Labour front bench did not voice any real or effective opposition to Conservative policy on this issue whilst they were in Government.

Furthermore again this is a Government supposedly with a top notch Human Rights Lawyer now as Attorney General and having experienced lawyers both as Leader and Foreign Secretary. It appears they think they are above International Law.

The end to the allowing of UKs Arms Sales licences with Israel complicit in the slaughter of Palestinians and destruction of Gaza should have been immediate by this Labour Government. Israeli attacks and huge loss of life have continued since the new UK Government assumed office.

I'd suggest there are influences as to why that has not been forthcoming.

Wishy washy statements from Lammy about a 'balanced position' and resuming funding to aid agencies simply won't do. (He has received donations from Israel and details have been provided on this thread, so any supposed impartiality by him could certainly be viewed as corrupted)

Zarah Sultana MP continues her campaign against her own Government Leadership for an end to these arms sales, which are against the said International Law from the World's Highest Court.

Supporters can petition here:

caat.org.uk

CAAT - Call on your MP Stop Arming Israel King’s Speech Amendment

Campaign Against Arms Trade
caat.org.uk caat.org.uk


Alan Duncans video posted earlier on this thread gives example of just how iinfluential those associated with Israel can be in the UK Government.
 




Bry Nylon

Bry Nylon

Test your smoke alarm
Helpful Moderator
Jul 21, 2003
20,355
Playing snooker
Weststander said:
Perhaps the moderators might look at this at some stage.
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As Moderators, we have tried all manner of things over the years to try and make the political threads of NSC more inclusive and civilised - but frankly it is a thankless and ultimately futile task.

They tend to be dominated 24/7 by a tiny percentage of posters who bicker from entirely entrenched positions and a world view that will never change, all convinced that they are wholly correct and those holding a different view 'must' be countered and shown the error in their thinking.

It will come as no surprise to anybody that the vast majority of Post Reports originate from the political threads, which as a Moderator is both massively tedious and time-consuming (although admittedly not for me as frankly I can't be bothered dealing with them any longer).

In short - people get the political threads they deserve, I guess. And the reason they are such clusterfucks on here is that it is just the same people, making the same points, over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. So good luck with that.

By the way - I don't include you (@Weststander) in my analysis above; I've genuinely always seen you as one of the posters who engages on a wide range of topics, in the spirit of NSC, and I always make a point of reading your posts.

Blimey. Is it only Monday?
 


Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
NSC Patron
Oct 8, 2003
54,585
Faversham
chickens said:
The individual you are responding to is on my ignore list. I try to mute individuals only when absolutely necessary, most posters make good points sometimes, but you can absolutely get some single issue bores and disingenuous trolls who add nothing meaningful to the discourse. You just have to cut them out of the conversation.

I long ago decided that the chap you’re (almost certainly) wasting your breath on was among their number. Just leave him screaming into the void.
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Once Zeb gets their ignore list properly populated I can unignore them and enjoy their wisdom and insight again. The sight of the distress involved in their dealing with the arsewipes is too upsetting for me, making NSC almost unusable. Hopefully soon, Zeb - finger out! :wink:
 


Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
NSC Patron
Oct 8, 2003
54,585
Faversham
Bry Nylon said:
As Moderators, we have tried all manner of things over the years to try and make the political threads of NSC more inclusive and civilised - but frankly it is a thankless and ultimately futile task.

They tend to be dominated 24/7 by a tiny percentage of posters who bicker from entirely entrenched positions and a world view that will never change, all convinced that they are wholly correct and those holding a different view 'must' be countered and shown the error in their thinking.

It will come as no surprise to anybody that the vast majority of Post Reports originate from the political threads, which as a Moderator is both massively tedious and time-consuming (although admittedly not for me as frankly I can't be bothered dealing with them any longer).

In short - people get the political threads they deserve, I guess. And the reason they are such clusterfucks on here is that it is just the same people, making the same points, over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. So good luck with that.

By the way - I don't include you (@Weststander) in my analysis above; I've genuinely always seen you as one of the posters who engages on a wide range of topics, in the spirit of NSC, and I always make a point of reading your posts.

Blimey. Is it only Monday?
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On the politics threads @Weststander is my favourite slightly right of centre poster :thumbsup:
 




DavidinSouthampton

DavidinSouthampton

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jan 3, 2012
17,137
essbee1 said:
Is Starmer just a bad luck person? England lose the euros; Biden stands down a week or so after meeting him.
I like Keir, but is he one of those people cursed with bad luck?
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Spain were by far the better team.
Biden needed to go anyway. Next?
 


Zeberdi

Zeberdi

“Vorsprung durch Technik”
NSC Patron
Oct 20, 2022
6,018
Bry Nylon said:
By the way - I don't include you (@Weststander) in my analysis above; I've genuinely always seen you as one of the posters who engages on a wide range of topics, in the spirit of NSC, and I always make a point of reading your posts.
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Directed at me Bry? Hope not as I certainly don’t hold deeply entrenched political views about anything other than in the measure of our humanity in our treatment of each other.

I appreciate I probably get more complaints than others on these political threads (as I have been reliably informed recently) but then I tend to piss off both entrenched sides of the political spectrum - that’s what happens when you try voice nuance and balanced pov. 🤷‍♂️

Edit My only point here was that the Israel/Gaza thread is there for anyone wanting a protracted, in depth discussion about that issue - this thread is about all the policies of the new Government so I don’t think it should be dominated by a few people (on either side) for pages and pages pumping their entrenched and comparatively extreme povs on Gaza - there is enough of that on the Isreal/Gaza thread.
 
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Bry Nylon

Bry Nylon

Test your smoke alarm
Helpful Moderator
Jul 21, 2003
20,355
Playing snooker
Zeberdi said:
Directed at me Bry?

I appreciate I probably get more complaints than others on these political threads (as I have been reliably informed recently) but then I tend to piss off both entrenched sides of the political spectrum - that’s what happens when you try voice nuance and balanced pov. 🤷‍♂️
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FFS @Zeberdi! :lolol: No, not directed at you.

It was a general observation; the political threads on NSC have been like this for years and years. It does feel these days that there are more of them - but that is probably just because there is a dirth of football stuff going on right now.

So far as the 'post reports' are concerned, it is entirely up to individuals how they use this facility. I've always felt it is best used to bring to the attention of the Moderators something they may have missed that is potentially libelous or crosses any boundaries that may land NSC, the owner of NSC or the poster in hot water. If people engage on the political threads then, for me, that comes with a degree of 'at your own risk' and expecting Moderators to continually referee personal spats is an unrealistic expectation, in my view.

But - just to be clear, this wasn't directed at you, Zeberdi.
 








Zeberdi

Zeberdi

“Vorsprung durch Technik”
NSC Patron
Oct 20, 2022
6,018
Weststander said:
I've a wide mix of very varied views, hard to pigeonhole me, which goes against 2024 identity politics :lol:.
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We are much more closely aligned in our differences than I realised 🙂
 


aolstudios

aolstudios

Well-known member
Nov 30, 2011
4,998
brighton
Harry Wilson's tackle said:
You haven't provided any evidence, you complete arse. I'm putting you and your silly anti-Labour propaganda bollocks on ignore. If you want to liberate Palestine you need allies. You might get some on the left (where I am) but if you carry on appealing to the anti-Jew nutters, your hopes and dreams will be forever dashed.
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He already is.
armchairclubber said:
Though you'll perhaps not see it, I'll make correction of your mistake.

I did not say that Labour / Lammy have taken money from Bibi so why would I need to prove that or even you prove a negative?

You obviously like to play with words.

What I did say and quote:

No doubt, while Lammy has shaken hands with 'war criminal' Netenyahu, donations from Israel to himself and other prominent Labour MPs have been influential in their decision making.

I hope you can comprehend that.

There is evidence of this and you choose to ignore it.

It is not a slur.
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There's evidence that "donations from Israel to himself and other prominent Labour MPs have been influential in their decision making"?
Really? That's more than a slur.
You're not very good at this, are you
 








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